If you're not voting Labour because of Palestine or gender nonsense ...

[CheesyJacketPotato]

Are you really ok with having another Tory government? Because in all honesty that is what you'll get.

As much as I dislike the Tory government, at least they do what it says on the tin and you know where you stand.

I’d be up for voting for change but I can’t see how voting for Labour would be a vote for change and any change there was wouldn’t be positive.

Both the Palestine and trans issues are important to me so I can’t vote for a party whose views on those things are so different to mine, even if it does mean I’m voting for more of the same crap we already have. It would make no sense.

Those asking what are Labour going to do and with what money - well same applies to the Tories.

Either party will be limited in what they can achieve especially with CoL as it is.

So vote for who you think is less awful.

I really don't understand this. You are politically homeless and will be spoiling your ballot paper because 'infrastructure is on its knees and Labour [won't have] a strong economy backing them up like in 97.' So because they are going to be restricted in what they can do (which tbf, they themselves are at pains to point out - they aren't claiming they're going to solve everything straight away) because of the shit-show the Tories have caused, you're going to spoil your ballot to help ensure that the Tories are given even more time to cause even more of a shit-show. Ok....

I have no option but to vote Labour. am I a fan of keir? no... am I sold on all their policies? also no...

but anything is better than another round of the tories

I’m voting Labour for the first time ever. Lately been veering towards LubDem but Starmer seems moderate and sensible and I can’t be doing with another round of the Tory shitshow - I have voted Tory in past but that ship sailed a while back!
I’m disappointed with the Labour gender stance, ok with the Palestinian one - in balance it’s the best fit for me overall 🤷‍♀️

But @mrscatwoman why would I vote for a party I do not support? Spoiling ballots is a legitimate way of protesting and the number are read out at the count. I would never not vote - women died for my right to do that so I can exercise my democratic duty and protest. I don’t want to be governed by the tories or Labour particularly so why the helL would I vote for either of them?

They haven't released a manifesto yet, but I am in favour of the VAT on private education idea and I like a lot of the ideas mentioned here, though they aren't set out with the level of detail that will come with a manifesto: https://labour.org.uk/missions/

I know life will be better just because I won't be scared to turn on the news to hear of our government shaming us with corruption and lies on a daily basis. That'll be enough in the first instance.

People so disenfranchised they can’t bring themselves to vote isn’t navel gazing it is a sad indictment of politics and politicians today. I agree we can’t have another 5 years of what we currently have but what are Labour going to do? And with what money?

But what have current Labour politicians actually done to make people think they are on a par with the current batch of Tories we have? I'm not saying they're all perfect, but people say 'they're all the same' and then don't or can't actually give examples of current Labour MPs: lying to parliament/the Queen/ breaking laws they have put in place/stirring up division and violence on the streets/ have a policy that makes everyone in the country poorer just to try and save their own party/ want to break international laws/ say they will change the law if it doesn't suit them etc etc.

And this argument that there will be no money so they won't be able to do anything anyway is coming up more and more, which makes me think it's on someone's instructions. And what are we saying? There's no money so the Tories might as well stay in forever? I don't get it. Labour doing not that much due to lack of money is better imo than the Tories continuing to drive us into the ground.

I'm not even sure why this is hashed out time and time again on MN. It's clear that Labour will be the next government. I won't be voting for them because, actually, I do think that there is worse than this... it's this, without women's rights, ever more punitive measures for speaking truthfully and a safeguarding dumpster fire...but you'll get to see what spoils are manifested for handing in your reality badge 'for the greater good'.

I'm not sure what is achieved by also telling off other women for not similarly falling in their sword? Is it the smug satisfaction of moral righteousness before Labour gains power and their shine is knocked off by a manifesto mangled by necessary compromises?

@ehb102

"I'm more okay with another Tory government than I am with the erasure of women, women's existence, women's status and women's protections."

Good luck with the tories looking after women (and children) then. They look after their own rich mates, that's all. They are the scum of the earth and that is why the Labour party came into being. Still, I guess the main thing is that you might never see a penis in a changing room (or whatever). Obviously more important than mental health services, children's welfare, the NHS, the elderly, the disabled and the total erosion of workers rights and the economy. Never mind dear, crack on.

I think we need complete political reform in the UK - the first past the post system doesn’t work and we end up in a situation where you have to vote tactically rather than for the party you want to. Unfortunately that means a labour vote for me as it seems to be a two horse race between them and the conservatives. I’d rather vote Lib Dem or Green TBH but it would be wasted in my constituency and in the overall seats in the house. We need a better system that actually allows a democratic parliament

I'm not going to vote

I was just wondering what they said that gives you hope that they would be better over the next five years? I'm not sure the gains achieved by the loss of charitable status would go very far to achieve very much.

@User74895634

"I'm not going to vote"

Great plan love, that'll show 'em.

Saves me the bother and I'm not a love

Sorry was this thread just for women, off I go then

If the country wasn’t in such deep crisis I would not vote labour because of the gender/Palestine issues. As it stands I will have to swallow it and vote labour since a protest vote = a vote for another conservative term

The thing is, @ginasevern , there won't be any women's services if Labour get in. There will be services for people. And given that women's mental health is majorly caused by male violence 1 in 4 raped, 1 in 3 victims of domestic violence, mostly men, more than 1 in 2 sexually assaulted - anything that opens up the door to male predators such as self identification as a woman just sentences the whole of womenhood to bad mental health.

You can look at all the penises you want willingly, but flashing is a crime of violence, and denying it and its impact, plus all the other ways that men hurt women, is just burying your head in the sand.

Oh, and those poor women? Under certain sections of Labour and definitely under the Lib Dems they are going to have to accept the role of being raped for money because "sex work is work".

So no. Things can be a lot worse than the Tories will make them. The bit Labour is clueless about is that they are losing all their economically comfortable women voters over this.

Labour aren't appealing but I'm going for them for what they won't do - I don't think they'll continue pointless 'culture wars', they won't continue to break down human rights and democratic process. They won't do nearly enough to undo years of Tory harm because they're scared to be fair rather than 'tough' (as in cruel). But I am genuinely worried about the harm the Tories would do if they got in again - I'm pretty sure, for example, they'd come after maternity rights under the guise of 'improving productivity'

Both choices are terrible and so what should we do? Settle for a lesser evil in general while ticking our rights away? Why shouldn't women matter more to me than anything else?

Definitely

The Tories have not published any trans guidance for schools, have almost decriminalised rape and other sexual offences, and many of their policies harm women far more than men.

Benefit cuts however disguised are more likely to affect one parent households (usually women).

I'm not going to vote Labour because they want to bring in VAT on private schools and my daughter is at a private school. Simple as that. I hate the current government but have no faith that Starmer will be better and I don't want to pay an extra 20% on school fees.

I was thinking I couldn't vote for Labour because of their stance on what a woman is.

But seeing the story today about the tories considering stopping meds for benefit claimants on sanctions made me realise I need to go back to voting Labour.

For me, women's rights are important. Misogyny, violence and abuse towards girls and women, I can't ignore this any longer. They're hinting at a general election next autumn so Im watching the parties very closely before I make my mind up. It won't be Tory though; I will never forgive them for the pandemic mismanagement and the erosion of services. But who to vote for; well its up to the parties now to try and persuade me that me and my daughters matter as much as the NHS, education etc.