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If you're not voting Labour because of Palestine or gender nonsense ...

523 replies

CheesyJacketPotato · 18/11/2023 12:12

Are you really ok with having another Tory government? Because in all honesty that is what you'll get.

OP posts:
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9
HRTQueen · 02/05/2024 23:00

I disagree

These issues are extremely important to some people why would they vote for a party they felt wasn’t supportive of their views

this is why we need to have more that two main parties It’s creates more division and the risk of high majorities allowing governments to so as they please

I regret voting Labour for the third term after the Iraq war and I will never regret not voting Labour when Jeremy Corbyn was leader

Dineasair · 02/05/2024 23:25

cardibach · 02/05/2024 20:37

I don’t respond to condescending posters who consider themselves my superior.

You accuse me of having an issue with comprehension and then say that I’m condescending and acting superior, still playing the victim 🤦‍♀️

BIossomtoes · 03/05/2024 08:20

These issues are extremely important to some people why would they vote for a party they felt wasn’t supportive of their views

Of course they are. But not in numbers significant enough to have any impact on election results.

Otterly2 · 03/05/2024 08:56

Dineasair · 02/05/2024 22:07

Because Labour are to blame for the position that we find ourselves in with the whole gender thing. Not only did they introduce it in 2004 but they then made matters even worse by amending it so that you could legally change sex and falsify your birth certificate, thereby installing a legal falsehood into UK law.
This was not a wise or acceptable thing to do, it was reckless and ill thought, and has led to the truly disturbing and absurd scenario of a woman who is raped or assaulted by a man having to take an oath in court to tell the truth and then being immediately ordered to collude in a lie by calling her attacker “she”. This makes a mockery of the solemnity and majesty of the law, and that matters. It is not just or fair and in fact favours the perpetrator over the victim.

It has also led to men escaping the appropriate punishment for rape, only a man can be convicted of a rape charge in Scotland as rape is a sex specific crime here, it can only apply to a man as only a man has a penis, the weapon of rape.
this is not justice, it is in fact a disgrace.

Labour has said that it’s proud of bringing in these changes to the law, they have also said that they will pursue self id. The Labour Party in Scotland did vote with the SNP and the Greens for self id, and also for the dreadful and anti democratic Hate Crime Act with which they had hoped to silence opposition. Thankfully JK Rowling scuppered that on day one. The Scottish Tory Party voted against both.

Women and children have been raped and assaulted by trans women the length and breadth of the Uk and also in other countries, our language has been erased and our concerns ridiculed. We have been vilified for perfectly legal views shared by the majority of the population and called Nazis and fascist simply for asking perfectly reasonable questions. Women like JK Rowling have been threatened with rape and murder simply for stating that they will not accept that a man can be a woman.

Yes, the Tories have just let things run their course, many of them were captured too, stupid Maria Miller and Liz Truss among others, but they have seemingly come to their senses. They have realised that most of the population don’t agree with this, as poll after poll in many countries show, and they have started to turn it around. That’s why I may vote for them if I can’t find an alternative, this is the most important issue in living memory because it’s about truth and basic reality. It’s also about not forcing people to comply with a pseudo religious ideology that they don’t agree with and that goes against freedom of belief. Everyone is free to believe what they like, but they are not free to demand that I believe it too.

We have never had a Stasi or a KGB in the UK and yet because the government are trying to stifle opposition on this contentious issue, that most of the population are dead against, we now have draconian hate crime laws in Scotland that are reminiscent of East Germany before the wall came down. Labour have said that they will also strengthen the Hate Crime laws in England too by the way. This stuff matters, it’s not a fringe issue, it goes right to the heart of who we are as a society, are we a truly secular, free and democratic country, or not?

Thank you - reading your post made me feel quite emotional.

I don't think Truss has ever been supportive of gender ideology though. Theresa May was the one who was all about 'be kind'.

Otterly2 · 03/05/2024 08:58

Which polls? And can you link to them? Because this issue doesn’t even make the 20 issues of greatest concern to the UK electorate

The last time I saw someone claim this they linked to a poll which gave voters a list to choose from - and guess what wasn't on it? 🙄

Otterly2 · 03/05/2024 08:59

BIossomtoes · 03/05/2024 08:20

These issues are extremely important to some people why would they vote for a party they felt wasn’t supportive of their views

Of course they are. But not in numbers significant enough to have any impact on election results.

In your opinion.

Dineasair · 03/05/2024 09:33

Otterly2 · 03/05/2024 08:56

Thank you - reading your post made me feel quite emotional.

I don't think Truss has ever been supportive of gender ideology though. Theresa May was the one who was all about 'be kind'.

Edited

Thank you, I was feeling quite emotional when I wrote it. To see our democratic values being thrown away and draconian laws, more suited to a totalitarian regime, being brought in to support this contentious ideology, just terrifies me and breaks my heart.

EasternStandard · 03/05/2024 09:35

Otterly2 · 03/05/2024 08:58

Which polls? And can you link to them? Because this issue doesn’t even make the 20 issues of greatest concern to the UK electorate

The last time I saw someone claim this they linked to a poll which gave voters a list to choose from - and guess what wasn't on it? 🙄

People push it but if politicians thought it really didn’t matter we wouldn’t see row back from Self ID nor the mess of the SNP Greens which keeps biting them politically

BIossomtoes · 03/05/2024 09:36

Otterly2 · 03/05/2024 08:59

In your opinion.

No, not in my opinion. Show me the polling that indicates it’s a key issue to significant numbers of voters.

jasflowers · 03/05/2024 09:44

Dineasair · 02/05/2024 17:56

Labour might not be in power but people are asking us to vote for them so their position is relevant, and all MPs and SNPs are involved in voting in laws, so how are they irrelevant because their not in power? The Hate Crime laws and The Gender Recognition Reforms were passed in Scotland because Scottish Labour voted for them with the SNP, the Greens and the Lib Dem’s. How is the fact that they are not in power relevant? The Scottish Labour Party are not as separate from the English version as they would have us believe, and many regard Scottish Labour, not as an independent party in it’s own right, but as a branch office. They usually follow the political agenda of the English office, so it follows that the English version won’t have different policies.

Don’t tell me what to do, if people are relentless in their attempts to persuade people to vote in favour of a particular party, to the extent that they will constantly go over the same points again and again, gaslighting and patronising, inferring that you are just too silly to grasp the points then yes, I would call them acolytes. There are people all over these boards doing just that, repeatedly. Then when they are called out on that they employ Darvo tactics, say that they are being bullied, and claim victimhood, it’s very tedious.

Edited

TBH its no more than you are doing, so are you an acolyte too?

But seriously, its a debate, we ve differing opinions, will doubtless vote for different parties as we see different priorities.

Its doesn't make us bad people or Acolytes, yet you say we are the ones name calling, Davro (whatever that is) and bullying.

BIossomtoes · 03/05/2024 09:46

Otterly2 · 03/05/2024 08:58

Which polls? And can you link to them? Because this issue doesn’t even make the 20 issues of greatest concern to the UK electorate

The last time I saw someone claim this they linked to a poll which gave voters a list to choose from - and guess what wasn't on it? 🙄

Surely that tells you something, doesn’t it? So important it didn’t even make the list.

jasflowers · 03/05/2024 09:49

I don't think Truss has ever been supportive of gender ideology though. Theresa May was the one who was all about 'be kind'

Oh Truss most certain was/is.

she was the minister who responded to the 2020 consultation and used the phrase "be Kind" and nothing wrong with that at all, what would you have done?

Y0u can read all about how the Tories have "seen the light" here

https://publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm5802/cmselect/cmwomeq/129/report.html#:~:text=The%20GRA%20is%20an%20important,not%20be%20changing%20the%20legislation.

EasternStandard · 03/05/2024 09:50

@Otterly2 just look at what’s going on wrt politicians who keep pushing gender ideology, they know it’s a bad idea, hence the row backs or leaving

jasflowers · 03/05/2024 09:58

I'm see Rosie Duffield staying but Tories jumping ship.

I also do not see any mainstream politician "pushing" gender ideology at all, Starmer said a few days ago that TW need to out of female sport, which party allowed TW to compete in female sport in the first place???

However, as i said up thread, KS needs to be clearer on this.

EasternStandard · 03/05/2024 10:01

Scotland / Greens as in pp it’s caused major issues again

Political harm which politicians will be wary of

Linking to YouGov or whatever is nothing compared to the cautionary tale of Scottish politics, they got a warning with Isla Bryson and again with reactions to the Cass report

Llamasinjamas · 03/05/2024 10:03

I'm more okay with another Tory government than I am with the erasure of women, women's existence, women's status and women's protections.

This. So I've voted for Tories.

Jux · 03/05/2024 10:06

I shall spoil my ballot rather than vote for any candidate - not one of the parties is worthy of my vote.

If the Monster Raving Loony Party or somesuch field a candidate in my constituency (unlikely) I might vote for them rather than spoil my paper. I might but no way am I voting Tory or Labour or LD or bloody Green or Galloway or whatever.

Dineasair · 03/05/2024 10:18

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BIossomtoes · 03/05/2024 10:23

Fucking hell, that’s so rude. You’ve made an excellent job of proving @jasflowers’ point. Well done.

EasternStandard · 03/05/2024 10:25

This reply has been deleted

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I disagree with pp, this is fine and I’ve certainly seen much worse in the other direction

jasflowers · 03/05/2024 10:29

@Dineasair No i didn't, as far as i'm aware i never said that about you, You got me mixed up with another poster earlier & you re doing it again.

No i don't know what Darvro is, i thought you were referring to a Bond villain.

No issues with robust debate, however you need to keep it civil and within MN rules, which you re struggling with

LoobyDop · 03/05/2024 10:30

Being concerned about gender politics and the impact on women’s rights and children’s safety if some sanity isn’t restored is not nonsense, and YABVVU to categorise it as such. However, I do agree with you that right now there is more at stake and it’s not enough to justify another term of this disastrous government.

BIossomtoes · 03/05/2024 10:36

EasternStandard · 03/05/2024 10:25

I disagree with pp, this is fine and I’ve certainly seen much worse in the other direction

The usual sycophancy I see. Always reliable.

EasternStandard · 03/05/2024 10:37

BIossomtoes · 03/05/2024 10:36

The usual sycophancy I see. Always reliable.

Speaking of rude

Always reliable 😂

EasternStandard · 03/05/2024 10:39

@Dineasair keep posting the pp gets riled up but just ignore 🙌

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