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Do we actually know who bombed the hospital in Gaza yet?

1000 replies

Ididivfama · 18/10/2023 13:10

I keep seeing mixed reports. It’s really unsettling not to know.

OP posts:
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caringcarer · 18/10/2023 14:52

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Obviously because the bomb was fired over Gaza where Palestinians live. The only Israelis in Gaza are the hostages that Hamas took and it's thought they were taken to the North of Gaza. It's quite plausible that Hamas fired the bomb on the Palestinian people to stop the Israelis from getting all the sympathy. Hamas are terrorists who don't value human life hence they never give warnings about bombing so civilians can escape. Over time UK intelligence will be able to determine the origin of the bomb. So whoever fired it won't get away with it in the long term.

EnoughIsay · 18/10/2023 14:53

DoDoDoD · 18/10/2023 14:46

It know, I was using that term as it's a recognised one in terms of 'justified' targets - eg in the Geneva Convention (which Israel has ratified although it challenges parts of it, especially re. internal displacement)

So sorry @DoDoDoD - I did not mean to be snippy.

TheWayTheLightFalls · 18/10/2023 14:54

It was Israel of course, but now they are denying it because it make them look like monsters. Unless you believe that Gaza is bombing itself which is a little far fetched.

Hamas has (unlike Israel) very very crude rocket technology. A lot of them misfire or go off course- have a Google. So Hamas bombing Gaza is not beyond the realms of possibility from the perspective.

I think waiting rather than guessing is more helpful at / on this point.

MaggieFS · 18/10/2023 14:55

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It's not that simple. Hamas' interest isn't worrying about Palestinians in Gaza. It's about destruction of Israel. So goading Israel into action, or turning more countries against Israel, suits their needs very well.

(As I understand it, might be way off the mark)

caringcarer · 18/10/2023 14:56

Livelovebehappy · 18/10/2023 13:48

And as an aside, absolutely shocked to listen to Biden’s statement earlier today. It was like he was reading, monotone, from a piece of paper, with no understanding of what’s going on. Is he okay? Sounds totally out of it….

He's been like that for years. He thought his Granddaughter was his dead son. He regularly forget who he is talking too, stumbles over a lot and does not always finish his sentences. He is too old for the job and so is trump. It's bazaar that in the whole of the USA they don't vote for younger candidates. I don't trust Biden's finger on the button.

EnoughIsay · 18/10/2023 14:56

InterFactual · 18/10/2023 14:46

Nobody will ever know the truth. Countries who support Palestine will tell their citizens it was Israel. Countries who support Israel will tell their citizens it was Hamas. There's absolutely zero chance for the truth to come out and it surprises me that people give any credence to any of the information released about who did this.

I guess people always assume their government is honest and the other governments are liars but they're all as bad as each other. The public only gets to hear what various governments want them to hear.

Edited to add: Remember when Tony Blair told us we had absolute clear intelligence about WMDs in Iraq? You can't believe a word about any so called 'intelligence', it's all kept behind closed doors and filtered through spin doctors before either side gets to hear it.

Edited

I disagree - the truth does come out.

Eventually.

That is why the bombing needs to stop. Let investigators in - highly skilled, trained, professional people.

Make no mistake, this is all due to failed political policy under Prime Minister B. N.

SomeCatFromJapan · 18/10/2023 14:57

Unless you believe that Gaza is bombing itself which is a little far fetched.

Gaza is bombing Israel and the bombs are not exactly accurate and do sometimes fall short. There is nothing remotely far-fetched about that part of it and there is footage that shows it happened on the IDF twitter feed:

https://twitter.com/IDF/status/1714442617201586220

I appreciate that many will not view that as an impartial source but nevertheless that's the footage, for anyone interested, and it is their official twitter feed.

https://twitter.com/IDF/status/1714442617201586220

caringcarer · 18/10/2023 14:58

GrumpyPanda · 18/10/2023 14:27

He's had a lifelong struggle with stutter so he's never been a natural orator as every sentence must be a struggle for control. But he's sharp as a tack and knows the issues, and actors, inside out. Thank heavens he's at the helm in a time like this and not IQ45.

Are you on crack? Sharp as a tack people don't call their granddaughter by their dead son's name and forget the name of the person they are talking to.

Subtlety1985 · 18/10/2023 15:01

INeedAnotherName · 18/10/2023 13:29

Biden doesn't know either but we all know he's a staunch supporter of Israel so his words mean nothing.

Exactly this.

Biden said to Benjamin Netanyahu, “Based on what I have seen, it was done by the other team, not you. But there’s a lot of people out there who are not sure, so we’ve got to overcome a lot of things.”

This response seems very strange. The US leaders are trying really hard to appear ‘on-side’ with Israel, but it’s too over the top considering the disgust of citizens across the world. It’s as though they are fearful of critiquing Benjamin/Israel in anyway incase it escalates things further and are trying to encourage him to de-escalate by remaining supportive.

Atleast that’s what I’m telling myself, I’m distressed watching our leaders allowing the Palestinians to be treated like this.

DoDoDoD · 18/10/2023 15:02

EnoughIsay · 18/10/2023 14:53

So sorry @DoDoDoD - I did not mean to be snippy.

Oh no problem!

HeidiInTheBigCity · 18/10/2023 15:05

From the Guardian, just now:

The main force of the explosion at the al-Ahli al-Arabi hospital hit a courtyard and car park at the centre of the medical complex, packed with families taking refuge from airstrikes in surrounding neighbourhoods, the Anglican bishop responsible for the compound said.
Hosam Naoum, Anglican Bishop of Jerusalem, also told journalists that in the days before a Gaza hospital was hit by a devastating explosion, Israeli forces had issued three evacuation warnings to its directors, and struck it twice with missiles.
Israel has denied hitting the hospital on Tuesday, saying that the blast was caused by the warhead and propellant of a misfired Islamic Jihad rocket.
Naoum declined to attribute responsibility for the blast, saying that priests were not military investigators, but he condemned the war and called for a ceasefire.
It was crowds fleeing Israeli airstrikes elsewhere in Gaza city who bore the brunt of the blast, he said. “Two of our employees were injured, but the rest there were operations taking place when the blast (hit).”
“At that point in time (of the blast), we know there were thousands of people there,” he said. “They received a warning, there were some bombing and air strikes around the hospital and they fled in (to the hospital compound).”
On Saturday, Sunday and Monday the Israeli authorities contacted hospital staff, mostly by phone, telling them to leave.
“They have the phone numbers of all the directors of the hospitals. So they can either send message or (use) whatever means they have to notify them,” he said.
“We received the two missiles that hit the hospital. We could see and tell that they are from an Israeli strike at the hospital. And then we received the warnings,” he said.
Staff told refugees who crowded into its courtyard about those warnings, but they apparently judged the hospital safer than other options in a city under attack. In the afternoon before hundreds were killed and maimed, they had been singing peace songs to keep up their spirits, Naoum said.
Hospital administrators had warned them about the evacuation notices. “We had a moral obligation,” Naoum said. “We told them it is important you know what is taking place, but they have nowhere to go.”
A crowd of around 5,000 people almost all left after the first warning. But many returned when airstrikes pummelled the neighbourhood, hoping the hospital compound might be a relative haven amid Israel’s blanket evacuation order, that effectively turned all of Gaza city into a potential target.

This does not, of course, give any definitive answers - but it does help explain how comparatively little structural damage could result in a large number of casualties.

Gaza | World news | The Guardian

https://www.theguardian.com/world/gaza

DistrictAndCircle · 18/10/2023 15:07

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Because it’s in Gaza, where there are lots of Palestinians and very few Israelis.

The fact that there are lots of Palestinian victims doesn’t provide any clue at all as to whether the explosion was caused by an Israeli rocket (aimed there or not) or by a malfunctioning Hamas/Islamic Jihad rocket aimed at Israel that landed short.

Hungrycaterpillarsmummy · 18/10/2023 15:12

Some updates on twitter with photos of the site. It looks like a car park and buildings are still in tact. There is no chance 500 people died here. Hamas are talking shite. I thought it was odd "500" came very quickly after the incident.

Hungrycaterpillarsmummy · 18/10/2023 15:12

I think the crux of this is we actually cannot believe anything we see or hear until BBC verify it.

QuickDraining · 18/10/2023 15:17

GrumpyPanda · 18/10/2023 14:27

He's had a lifelong struggle with stutter so he's never been a natural orator as every sentence must be a struggle for control. But he's sharp as a tack and knows the issues, and actors, inside out. Thank heavens he's at the helm in a time like this and not IQ45.

He can't be that sharp as a tack considering he hallucinated watching video footage of baby decapitation.

crumblingschools · 18/10/2023 15:17

@Hungrycaterpillarsmummy you need to read the post just above yours from the Guardian, explains why there could be so many people killed

I would also like an Israeli official explain how you can evacuate a hospital with nowhere else to go

ruby1957 · 18/10/2023 15:18

Hungrycaterpillarsmummy · 18/10/2023 15:12

I think the crux of this is we actually cannot believe anything we see or hear until BBC verify it.

You think BBC verification has any relevance? Unlikely

WanderingWitches · 18/10/2023 15:22

Hungrycaterpillarsmummy · 18/10/2023 15:12

I think the crux of this is we actually cannot believe anything we see or hear until BBC verify it.

The BBC?
They sent out push notifications to people's phone last night saying that the Israelis dropped a bomb on the hospital, based on the words of Hamas alone.

PenOfTentacles · 18/10/2023 15:25

There are neutral news agencies such as Reuters. Actually they’re the only source I can think of.

Luckydip1 · 18/10/2023 15:25

So if a hospital was bombed in Israel and Hamas said that Israel bombed itself do you honestly think anyone in the world would believe them?

Flatbellyfella · 18/10/2023 15:29

BBC news is so pro Israel on news reports, I have been watching Aljazera News Live from Doha where shocking live coverage of the events breaks my heart to see women and children bombed & their bodies torn apart.
Biden comes across as a totally useless person to give advice .

Aaron95 · 18/10/2023 15:30

JaninaDuszejko · 18/10/2023 13:28

The thing is does it really matter? In a war atrocities are committed by both sides. Even if we know who made the rocket that destroyed the hospital how will we ever find out if it was deliberate or an accident. Hundreds of people are dead, that's what happens in a war. It's horrendous.

This. There is a war going on. Lots of terrible things have happened and are going to happen in the next few months. Lots of people are going to die. War is not a clean process.

Terfsichore · 18/10/2023 15:37

Ididivfama · 18/10/2023 13:10

I keep seeing mixed reports. It’s really unsettling not to know.

@Ididivfama So what do you think OP or did you just start yet another thread just to get everybody riled up again ?

Silence1 · 18/10/2023 15:39

However it happened we can surely agree there still is a huge problem treating the people injured due to the aid blockade.

"KHAN YOUNIS, Gaza Strip (AP) — Doctors hamstrung by dwindling medical supplies rushed Wednesday to save people badly wounded in a massive blast at a Gaza City hospital the day before, performing surgery – often without anesthesia – on patients lying on floors, as Israel kept up its attacks on the besieged territory."

"Ghassan Abu Sitta, a plastic surgeon working at al-Alhi, said he heard a loud explosion and the ceiling of his operating room collapsed.
“The wounded started stumbling toward us,” he wrote in an account posted to Facebook. He saw hundreds of dead and severely wounded people. “I put a tourniquet on the thigh of a man who had his leg blown off and then went to tend to a man with a penetrating neck injury.”
Video that The Associated Press confirmed was from the hospital showed the hospital grounds strewn with torn bodies, many of them young children, as fire engulfed the building. On Wednesday morning the blast scene was littered with charred cars and the ground was blackened by debris."

Gaza's doctors struggle to save hospital blast survivors as Middle East rage grows | AP News

Palestinians rescue a child from under the rubble after Israeli airstrikes in Gaza City, Gaza Strip, Wednesday, Oct. 17, 2023. (AP Photo/Abed Khaled)

Gaza's doctors struggle to save hospital blast survivors as Middle East rage grows

Doctors in Gaza City have performed surgery on hospital floors often without anesthesia in a desperate bid to save badly wounded victims of a massive blast that killed civilians sheltering in a nearby hospital.

https://apnews.com/article/israel-palestinians-gaza-hamas-war-biden-hospital-d9606e0ead1f8c4e9fd00b602ed14a38

Luckydip1 · 18/10/2023 15:44

So Isreal warns they are going to bomb the hospital in Gaza so evacuate it, bombs the hospital and then refuses aid, all with Joe Biden saying great job Israel, keep doing what you're doing.

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