Do we actually know who bombed the hospital in Gaza yet?

[Ididivfama]

I keep seeing mixed reports. It’s really unsettling not to know.

I just don’t understand why there are no peace talks going on, that I know of anyway

The bombing NEEDS to stop.

They are shooting fish in a fish tank.

There is nowhere for people to go.

They are being slaughtered.

Other sources are saying that Al-Ma'amadani is another name or a former name for the Al-Ahli hospital.

New York Times https://www.nytimes.com/2023/10/17/us/politics/biden-israel-trip.html
The Journal https://www.thejournal.ie/500-dead-gaza-hospital-6199764-Oct2023/
Palestine Chronicle https://www.palestinechronicle.com/what-is-al-ahli-hospital-that-israel-has-just-bombed-in-gaza-explainer/

Baffling. Can't imagine why.

Hmmm, maybe I can. Its really really simple.

Israel invests in protecting citizens (safe rooms, iron dome)

Hamas doesn't.

But if you want to see pictures of dead israelis, there are plenty from October 7th.

As for that comment about the gluten free flour, just wow.

All the Israelis I know are posting about missing family members or friends, dead family members or friends, dislocated Israelis (approx 100000 Israelis from the south and north have had to move), disrupted lives, supporting the many many many bereaved families, worrying about their kids who have been called up, kids in bomb shelters. As well as being upset about suffering citizens in Gaza.

Of course it matters that people are really quick to believe Hamas, a group who are holding hostage 200 men, women and children.

Please tell me exactly who Hamas are protecting when they rape women. I really really really want to know.

My friend just told me about a friend of his whose daughter was kidnapped by Hamas. They are receiving video messages from her phone with her being tortured. Would you believe a person who kidnapped your child and is torturing them? Do you think they are rapists and toruturers but at the same time truthful and honest people?

Hopefully it's enough for the likes of Iran to stay out of it

I agree with your post @sleepyscientist but the above is naive. Iran is loving this, they are the master puppeteer.

Biden terrifies me.

He's had a lifelong struggle with stutter so he's never been a natural orator as every sentence must be a struggle for control. But he's sharp as a tack and knows the issues, and actors, inside out. Thank heavens he's at the helm in a time like this and not IQ45.

Wondering too

R4 was very interesting this morning, with BBC questioned

Site was as @Livelovebehappy pp on this, some posts actually demanding escalation in region which is utter madness

@InvisibleDuck I can't see the new york times link as don't have an account, but note the Journal one refers to it as:
'ActionAid Ireland has also condemned “in the strongest terms” the bombing of Gaza’s Al Ahli Al Arabi Al Ma’amadani Hospital.'

I've googled and can something saying Al-Ma'amadani is the new name so sounds like the Independent have got that wrong, unless there is also another hospital to the West called Al-Ma'amadani.

collectively punish all Gazans

I take your point but I do not think 1,000 dead children is collective punishment.

That is slaughter.

It's really not genocide. I find that gaslighting by the supporters of the terrorists.

I can't belive a word that the Hamas 'government' states about anything. They showed the damage In the car park on sky news....... cars unmoved and just burnt out. No way do i believe that could be an Israeli bomb that killed 500 people.Hamas are manipulative abusive liars. Like narcissists spinning their tale before the other person even gets to comment.

Estimates range widely - the lower bound of what I am reading would seem to be some 200-300 fatalities, the upper 700+.

Doctors, including internationals (for those unwilling to believe Palestinian ones) and humanitarian agencies seem to agree it is carnage, however!

The British Government had no control over the events on Alderney and the other Channel Islands during the Nazi Occupation.
The Channel Islands were under complete German control.
All orders came from Berlin.

@Starboy14 so how would you describe it?

The Guardian has just reported:
"Gaza’s health ministry said in a statement on Wednesday that 471 Palestinians were killed and more than 314 wounded at the al-Ahli al-Arabi hospital in the north of the Gaza Strip in last night’s blast."

Is 'Gaza Health Ministry' Hamas? Are there any other sources confirming this horrible number?

Yes, the Gazan Health Ministry is being run by Hamas - that does not necessarily make it wrong, though; it is roughly in line of what humanitarian orgs assume.

@EvelynKatie read this from a military analyst who has been extremely accurate / correct on Ukrainian activity: https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1714535497958334678.html

he suggests that 500 is unlikely even if people were sheltering on the grassy area. He has applied logic and technical analysis based on the images and comparisons with other images from different explosions (and also read his comments on crater size and the cropping of the image by hamas to avoid showing the smallness of the crater). He’s got some facts, from which conclusion may be drawn.

Baffling. Can't imagine why.

Hmmm, maybe I can. Its really really simple.

Israel invests in protecting citizens (safe rooms, iron dome)

Hamas doesn't.

Hamas are animals and started this with the most egregious attack on Isreal and her people. Every Jew I know had their bones turn to jelly. I cried for all of them that day.

This is not the answer.

But to your point - Israel does indeed invest in protecting its citzens with the help of a yearly cash injection of over $3 billion US dollars.

Quite a whack of that money goes on subverting the Palestinian political system - divide and conquer. A successful method perfected by the Roman Empire and never far from use since.

When you control, and use as a control, basic living elements like fresh water, electricity, rule of law, work permits, housing, medcine - you create David vs Goliath.

The bombing HAS to stop.

Biden is running for election.

Against Trump.

He could lose on this issue.

@HeidiInTheBigCity @Vermin Thanks both. I've been trying to find if there's any credible sources that confirm the death toll and have been confused by images of car parks rather than a hospital building so wanting to understand. I guess that's the difficulty with this, so much misinformation around it's hard to make sense of what is real or not.

It was Israel of course, but now they are denying it because it make them look like monsters. Unless you believe that Gaza is bombing itself which is a little far fetched.

@TwilightSkies There are no dead Israelis in those videos because the bombed hospital is in Gaza. The only Israelis likely to be in Gaza right now are those who are hostages. While I doubt the Israelis blew up the hospital, I'm willing to wait until the international intelligence community comes to a conclusion. Hamas have form in this type of thing, however. Your post sounds a bit anti-Israel to me!

It know, I was using that term as it's a recognised one in terms of 'justified' targets - eg in the Geneva Convention (which Israel has ratified although it challenges parts of it, especially re. internal displacement)

Nobody will ever know the truth. Countries who support Palestine will tell their citizens it was Israel. Countries who support Israel will tell their citizens it was Hamas. There's absolutely zero chance for the truth to come out and it surprises me that people give any credence to any of the information released about who did this.

I guess people always assume their government is honest and the other governments are liars but they're all as bad as each other. The public only gets to hear what various governments want them to hear.

Edited to add: Remember when Tony Blair told us we had absolute clear intelligence about WMDs in Iraq? You can't believe a word about any so called 'intelligence', it's all kept behind closed doors and filtered through spin doctors before either side gets to hear it.

On all the threads that I have read here, and in all the conversations I have heard in real life, nobody is pro Hamas.

Almost everybody is against this bombing.

And why is not genocide? If we accept that genocide means the deliberate killing of large numbers of the same ethnic group with the aim of destroying them, then it is genocide.

Minister Cohen, Israeli Foreign Minister, called the Palestinians "human animals".

I would never take anything from the BBC as the truth they are so biased and full of lies.
After what I have seen from the BBC recently I will feel relief when I cancel my TV license.

It's genocidal given the scale, how indiscrimate it is and the Israeli discourse about Palestinians.