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Do we actually know who bombed the hospital in Gaza yet?

1000 replies

Ididivfama · 18/10/2023 13:10

I keep seeing mixed reports. It’s really unsettling not to know.

OP posts:
Thread gallery
76
EvelynKatie · 18/10/2023 16:24

@Luckydip1 If that happened, would Hamas then stop attacking Israel?

DoDoDoD · 18/10/2023 16:27

EvelynKatie · 18/10/2023 16:22

@DoDoDoD I was thinking, what if the Israeli bombings end up killing their own hostages. Or, Hamas have killed them and then state it was because of an Israeli bombing.

The indiscriminate bombing suggests Israel are't prioritising the return of the hostages...but who knows

DoDoDoD · 18/10/2023 16:29

Can anyone explain - how did the IDF get a hold of those (disputed) recordings (in stereo) of Hamas phone calls and not realise the big raid was about to happen and have their security breached so badly that hundreds of Hamas operative were able to glide in?

EvelynKatie · 18/10/2023 16:29

The Guardian:
A US veto led to the UN security council failing to agree to any resolution on the Middle East crisis after the US rejected a Brazil sponsored proposal that called for humanitarian corridors, a pause in the fighting and a rescinding of the order by Israel requiring citizens in Gaza to leave the North of Gaza.
The text supported by 12 of the 15 members of the security council including criticism of “heinous terrorist crimes by Hamas” and made no direct criticism of Israel. But it was opposed on Wednesday by the US ambassador, Linda Thomas-Greenfield, on the basis that it made no mention of Israel’s right to self-defence. The UK abstained.
The US ambassador said she was horrified and saddened by the loss of life, but added Hamas actions that had brought about the humanitarian crisis.

So the US are 'horrified' and 'saddened' yet did a veto against humanitarian corridors and a pause in the fighting?? This makes no sense to me.

Neriah · 18/10/2023 16:31

If the threads on MN are anything at all to go by, then it is hardly suprising that Hamas and their allies and Israel are rocketing each other. If a bunch of people mostly, if not all, thousands of miles away from the conflict can't be civil or find some sort of discoursive common ground that doesn't rely on "whataboutery" and "the present can't be resolved without undoing the past", then I don't see any resolution. coming from people caught up in the midst of trauma and terror - on both sides.

But I am kind of piqued by the OP. She feels "unsettled" by not knowing who might have bombed the hospital? Which side bombing it would "settle" her?

EvelynKatie · 18/10/2023 16:33

Also, Biden announces $100 million in humanitarian assistance for Gaza, but they did a veto against pausing the fighting and allowing humanitarian corridors?

RudsyFarmer · 18/10/2023 16:34

No one wants to know the truth about any of this stuff. They just want their prejudice satiated.

Luckydip1 · 18/10/2023 16:34

EvelynKatie · 18/10/2023 16:24

@Luckydip1 If that happened, would Hamas then stop attacking Israel?

Of course.

Lamelie · 18/10/2023 16:35

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There was definitely a thread entitled '1000 dead as Israel bombs Gaza hospital' wasn't there?
It's interesting that since last Saturday when it felt like knee jerk attention seeking bandwagoning there hasn't been a calm moment to stand up and say I'm pro Israel. I really want to show solidarity and it feels like an act of provocation.

Struggggggling · 18/10/2023 16:36

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Luckydip1 · 18/10/2023 16:36

EvelynKatie · 18/10/2023 16:29

The Guardian:
A US veto led to the UN security council failing to agree to any resolution on the Middle East crisis after the US rejected a Brazil sponsored proposal that called for humanitarian corridors, a pause in the fighting and a rescinding of the order by Israel requiring citizens in Gaza to leave the North of Gaza.
The text supported by 12 of the 15 members of the security council including criticism of “heinous terrorist crimes by Hamas” and made no direct criticism of Israel. But it was opposed on Wednesday by the US ambassador, Linda Thomas-Greenfield, on the basis that it made no mention of Israel’s right to self-defence. The UK abstained.
The US ambassador said she was horrified and saddened by the loss of life, but added Hamas actions that had brought about the humanitarian crisis.

So the US are 'horrified' and 'saddened' yet did a veto against humanitarian corridors and a pause in the fighting?? This makes no sense to me.

This is such a politically charged situation.

DoDoDoD · 18/10/2023 16:36

Neriah · 18/10/2023 16:31

If the threads on MN are anything at all to go by, then it is hardly suprising that Hamas and their allies and Israel are rocketing each other. If a bunch of people mostly, if not all, thousands of miles away from the conflict can't be civil or find some sort of discoursive common ground that doesn't rely on "whataboutery" and "the present can't be resolved without undoing the past", then I don't see any resolution. coming from people caught up in the midst of trauma and terror - on both sides.

But I am kind of piqued by the OP. She feels "unsettled" by not knowing who might have bombed the hospital? Which side bombing it would "settle" her?

Maybe the OP meant with so much speculation and what seems to be misinformation, then as the cliché goes, the truth is the first casualty of war, and it's deeply unsettling.

FloweryName · 18/10/2023 16:37

They know where it came from. It’s doesn’t come as news to anyone that governments lie, especially when they want revenge.

This is like ‘weapons of mass destruction’ all over again.

Luckydip1 · 18/10/2023 16:37

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Exactly, so why are people trying to sow doubt.

DoDoDoD · 18/10/2023 16:37

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Leave and go where? There were also hundreds of people sheltering there.

Luckydip1 · 18/10/2023 16:38

FloweryName · 18/10/2023 16:37

They know where it came from. It’s doesn’t come as news to anyone that governments lie, especially when they want revenge.

This is like ‘weapons of mass destruction’ all over again.

Exactly

Luckydip1 · 18/10/2023 16:39

Israel is seizing on the recent attacks to drive Palestinians out of their own county even if it means starving them to death, all with the backing of the US.

HeidiInTheBigCity · 18/10/2023 16:39

Livelovebehappy · 18/10/2023 16:13

Of course not. Hamas would see it as weakness, crawl out from under their stones, and continue with what they started. You can’t debate rationally with terrorists, and nor should we. Absolute nightmare for Israel to navigate this. They’re trying to rescue their hostages (those that are still alive, I’m doubtful there’ll be any), and eradicate the threat to their people - Hamas, and at the same time trying not to bring the wrath of the Palestinian sympathisers upon their heads, who will try to get onboard the sympathies of countries to stop Israel doing anything if they could pin this recent bombing on them.

While I cannot endorse this on content, it does make for a rather good example of a general dynamic of this whole conflict!

Yes, it is about tangible issues - but beyond that, there is a commonly held belief that it is also about "hate" somehow.

That has not been what I have experienced during the significant time I have spent in the region. At all. Instead, I have found that for a lot of rather ordinary Israelis and Palestinians, it very much is about existential fear.

I can genuinely say that I have experienced ordinary people on both sides who seem utterly convinced that the "other" side's first and foremost priority is to, literally, wipe them out! As in: to either ethnically cleanse or kill them!

In actual fact, while there are totally psychopatic horrors on both sides - we have all seen the horros that Hamas has committed, and as for Israel: some of the Kahanist fringe of the settler movement, are nothing short of "literally genocidal". But, for the most part, this is still about land, security, sovereignty, and people who, ironically, both suffer complex, multi-generational collective trauma for entirely understandable reasons.

In other words: it really is still just about land, resources, statehood, and national identity!

But: the fact that a lot of people, literally, think "the other side wants to exterminate me, and everyone and everything I love" has the very unfortunate effect of also putting many of them into a mindset of "... but if I - and, more importantly: my loved ones! - are in such danger, anything, anything at all is better as an ultima ratio!"

On a very much more practical note: from an ice cold, purely pragmatic standpoint, it would be tactically stupid for the Netanyahu government, in particular, to stop right now!

Three weeks ago, they were on the brink of collapse and a crisis of legitimacy! Israel has never had such a far-right government before, and they are pushing judicial reforms that essentially make you question "why do you even want to bother with a judiciary if this is your idea of it?". Netanyahu himself has essentially two options: stay prime minister or risk going to prison! The country was divided, the government an embarrassing patchwork coalition of "cannot get a majority" and, frankly, the most lunatic far-right fringe elements in all the country ...

... today, Bibi gets hugs from Biden, promises of unconditional support from Rishi, and his opposition at least temporarily at his side! Call me a cynic but: if I were Machiavelli, I would tell him to send a nice thank you card to Haniyeh!

StarbucksSmarterSister · 18/10/2023 16:39

I doubt we'll know for sure but I think Israel would have scored a direct hit on more than just the car park. I would also expect more damage.

yodaforpresident · 18/10/2023 16:39

@ticketstickets I can’t even comprehend how awful that must be for the girl and her family. There are no words.

miniegg3 · 18/10/2023 16:40

crumblingschools · 18/10/2023 13:31

The IDF are saying the only damage was to a car park by a misfired terrorist missile. How come so many dead then? Were they all sheltering in the car park?

There's no way 500-800 dead they're inflating figures.

No evidence it was a bomb, just some burned out cars

Struggggggling · 18/10/2023 16:40

DoDoDoD · 18/10/2023 16:37

Leave and go where? There were also hundreds of people sheltering there.

Exactly they thought surely no one would bomb a hospital, this would be safer than being at home. They are sheltering in UN schools but the IDF are bombing those too

miniegg3 · 18/10/2023 16:42

BareGrylls · 18/10/2023 14:02

Whoever it was the death toll is likely higher because
a) civilians shelter in hospitals because they think it's safer,
b) Hamas base themselves in hospitals as they think it's less likely to be targeted and
c) Hamas store weapons and ammo at hospitals because they think they are less likely to be targeted.

But the hospital is undamaged.. its literally the car park

swirlingabyss · 18/10/2023 16:45

crumblingschools · 18/10/2023 13:35

@NotSuchASmugMarried

From BBC website:An IDF news conference: The Israeli military's spokesman Daniel Hagari spoke to reporters earlier and said:


  • The Palestinian Islamic Jihad militant group caused the blast at a Gaza City hospital on Tuesday with a misfired rocket

  • The "only location damaged" was a car park outside the Al Ahli hospital (pictured above) "where we can see signs of burning"

  • He said an Israeli missile - which Hamas said caused the explosion - would have caused bigger "craters and structural damage", and insisted it was the PiJ who were to blame

you do realise the IDF have many reasons to lie and cover up the truth about this, like they have about plenty of times in the past.

Trulywonderful · 18/10/2023 16:45

DoDoDoD · 18/10/2023 16:27

The indiscriminate bombing suggests Israel are't prioritising the return of the hostages...but who knows

The likelihood of hostages getting returned was always next to zero. A lot will probably have been tortured to death within the first 48 hours. Personally right from the start I have said if I was a hostage I would want one of those Israel bombs to land on me. To kill me quickly.

I have no doubt that a group of hostages will still be alive for now and being kept in fairly good health. This is so there can be videos of Hamas looking like they are not harming hostages.

A father of an eight year old girl that went missing during the pogrom was interviewed after she was found dead. The poor heartbroken father said he was relieved she had died quickly and wasn't taken hostage. I totally agree with him on this. If it was my child that would be my wish with only those two choices. I hate to think of what some of those young girls went through and are going through. So if a bomb has stopped them getting raped and tortured until Hamas decides to kill them then that is a good thing sadly.

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