DH and I argue about Dubai!

[handwringer82]

DH and I just can't agree on Dubai. I feel I don't want to go there on holiday. I don't want to pay my money to visit, and I have many reasons why, which are complex, and probably shared by some others on this forum, but not everyone I know.

Anyway, DH works in finance where many of his colleagues travel to Dubai, and holiday there. He'd like to go in his lifetime. Whenever he raises it I say I don't want to go, so he can go with work etc but I'd rather not go as a family with our DC, and he gets really cross about it. This topic is like a trigger disagreement which always turns into an argument. It's really annoying. On a wider level we've had marital issues and have been having counselling and been making progress but whenever this topic comes up we argue. I've tried to articulate my feelings but he just doesn't get it and thinks I should set it aside to go with him as it's somewhere he wants to go in his lifetime.

Anyone on here who feels strongly like me and would never want to go there on holiday? I'm struggling to articulate why to him or make him understand. I've said he doesn't even need to understand - just respect - but it's not enough. He says why am I happy going to US since I'm not a fan of their gun laws, buts it's not the same.

How would she become a second class citizen? You don’t become a citizen on vacation.

Her husband is suggesting a vacation. Probably lying on a beach in a bikini sipping cocktails, going out to restaurants or pubs in the same clothes she wears out at home, playing a round of golf, going shopping, seeing the landmarks. That is most people’s vacation to Dubai. Or lots just go and stay at a resort for a week. Same vacation as those kinds of vacations to anywhere.

I totally agree with you OP and would never want to set foot in Dubai. The hideous misogyny and plutocracy and exploitation on which the place is built would make we want to vomit up every mouthful of food that touched my lips there. You are not wrong.

I am sure it is a lovely place to visit as a tourist if you are wealthy enough - in exactly the same way as luxury could be achieved elsewhere with sufficient disregard for human rights of the underclasses. The reason other destinations are less lovely for the wealthy is because im those pther places there's less oppression of those whose role is to provide services to those at the top. I would no more participate in it than I would accept a gift of a slave.

If this is also yoir position then ultimately if your DH can't see this or even understand your pov then he must be operating on a completely different ethical basis to the point that I am not sure amy marriage between such wildly incompatible viewpoints could endure.

Fair point. I've spent too long lurking on the relationships board!

I was using it as a turn of phrase, of course you don't become a citizen, but your right and the law of the land apply differently to women than to men.

If you are going to stay in a resort for a week what is the point? Go to resort that doesn't use slave labour.

If I'm sipping cocktails anywhere I want to know the person serving me is being paid, and the person cleaning my hotel room, and the people who built the hotel I'm staying in.

In lots of places that is a given, in Dubai it isn't.

What is your evidence or source that resorts use slave labour and their employees are slaves?

I woudl be curious to know if we sat down and had a discussion what your actual knowledge of labour laws and labour realities are in the UAE.

The staff is paid
Yes the salaries could absolutely be better but that's the market with hundreds of thousands jobseekers on tourist visa and half of cvs having MBA on them.
The staff also gets accomodation and food.
For example Atlantis resorts have massive accomodation for their staff with transport to and from work as well as meals provided.

Salaries go through government and if you don't pay your company gets suspended.

Google the kafala system, do you really think the resorts were built not using it?

Whether it is still used with current employees, who knows?

I'm with you OP. Fortunately so is DH (who is half Arab, for those saying it's anti-Arab to feel this way), so I can't help you with his attitude.

I would just put it off tbh. I would say 'not while the dc are young, we'll revisit when they are teens'. Then 'not while they are teens, we'll revisit when they are adults'. Then 'it's too hot and I don't fancy it.'

You aren't stopping him going, you just don't want to go yourself. I'm guessing he sees it as a status symbol which is why he wants to go. Or maybe that is just me not being able to conceive of another reason for wanting to go...

You belief and evidence that workers in the UAE are slaves and that resorts are slave masters using slaves to serve drinks is based on a google search you did?

Your belief that workers in the UAE are owned by their employer without any freedom of movement or compensation or labour rights is because you googled a word?

It isn't anti-Arab to not like Dubai. It is anti-Arab / Muslim to only care about 'ethics' and 'morals' when it comes to Arab / Muslim people or nations and to make judgments based on a lack of knowledge or evidence but rather on stereotypes or headlines or sound bites you saw on social media that supported yoru confirmation bias about those awful Arabs.

There is so much blind ignorance on this thread. I know of many instances where people doing lower paid jobs in Dubai have been able to buy homes and put their kids through university in their home countries. The fact that you would prefer they were unable to do that is just ridiculous. The vast majority of people living there do so happily and for the betterment of their families. But hey why not arbitrarily decide the whole country is abominable. It's not It has a dynamism and a desire to achieve something that is sadly lacking in this country.

I’m with you on Dubai, OP.
A country run by misogynists, built by slaves who had no rights, no safety precautions. I’d be ashamed to know someone who thought it was a great place to holiday.

Your husband can go alone if he’s so keen. But I can see why you have marital problems, he doesn’t have your morals.

I think a lot of people on here misunderstand the question. It doesn't matter why she doesn't want to go! For example, I don't ever want to go to Australia for a holiday. Just have no interest, its too far, too hot, too many weird critters. I cant think of anything that would make this trip attractive to me. Silly, I know; now, I imagined a partner pushing me to go there - why? OP, this sounds like a power trip on his side. Maybe he thinks once he gets you there you will eventually like it? So he could say "I told you so?" I would avoid this conversation if it causes arguments but eventually would get cross if he keeps pushing for it again and again. Does he not understand the word "no"? What is his problem?

This.

It's a fantastic place for some guaranteed winter sun. Bonus being that flights are mostly by scheduled airlines so far better than charter, hotels are superb with immaculate service, little time difference so no jet lag. We generally fly out on Boxing Day for a New Year's break and the hotels really go all out for NYE celebrations. It always feels very safe and everywhere is spotless.

It’s definitely a hill I’d die on and I’m astonished there’s so many people on the thread poopooing your stance.

The problem though isn’t Dubai, it’s your husband’s attitude that you’re preventing him going: if he’s so dead set on it, he can go! But he doesn’t want that: he wants you to want to go. And he can’t make you want that, so really every argument about Dubai comes down to him trying to control your attitude and behaviour towards it. Even if you agreed to go, against your better judgement, I bet he’d be a nightmare while there, policing whether you had the right level of enjoyment and appreciation of the holiday. I had a boyfriend like this – awful about everything, even down to his preference to where to sit in the cinema: I hate being in the middle of a row, but I’d sit there if it was his choice of film. And he’d watch me throughout the film and question me afterwards: see? It wasn’t bad was it? Why don’t you like sitting there? Just fuck off! Like your husband should fuck off and stop arguing about Dubai; you’ve said you’re not going, the end. Off he pops to his immoral holiday solo.

Totally with you, op. Don't want to support their regime, modern slavery, or the way they treat women.
Would never go there, even if offered a free holiday. Always slightly disappointed if a friend goes there.
Can't overturn the regime but can withhold my meagre tourist dollar.

It’s definitely a hill I’d die on and I’m astonished there’s so many people on the thread poopooing your stance.

They had great service from the modern slaves in Dubai! Stop being a snob!

How do you think UK had super cheap veg and fruit...
There was over 30% increase in referrals in UK in last couple of years.

That said, of someone doesn't want to go somewhere they shouldn't be forced. But everyone is a hypocrite in one way or another.

I agree with pps that he is just looking for an argument.

Do you have problems with comprehension? I was suggesting you google it as you seem to be completely ignorant of the system.

It is a system that is legal in Dubai and gives employers a huge amount of control over their employees.

I've been reading about the abuse of workers in Dubai for years.

Some sub saharan African countries offer training to try to help the workers before they go. Kenya tried to ban workers from going to the ME to work.
Organisations like ITUC and Caritas have been working on projects for decades.

So google kafala system and start your education.

The Human Rights Watch reports spell it all out for all the deniers on here. Here you go:

https://www.hrw.org/world-report/2022/country-chapters/united-arab-emirates

The section about honour killing is particularly chilling.

In reference to men murdering female relatives for having extramarital sex, the report states:

"the law still allows families of the murder victim to waive their right to see the person punished in return for compensation (blood money) or choose to freely pardon them. In such cases, the accused can be subject to a minimum sentence of seven years in prison instead of life. When family members kill a woman, including in so-called “honor” killings, the victim’s family is also the family of the murderer and is likely to allow men to receive lighter sentences."

I agree with you OP.

It seems to me he brings this up purely to start an argument. You have said you don't want to go and he should respect that, instead he brings it up knowing it will lead to an argument.

Every time he does this don't react. Or suggest somewhere else. Or point out he is trying to bully you into doing something he knows you don't want to do.

I wouldn't want to go there either. You are bit being unreasonable as you have said you are perfectly happy for him to go with work with friends etc. Why is he insisting you go it does seem very strange.

I lived in the middle east. I have first hand knowledge, interacted directly with hundreds of workers, have been to Dubai, know about the kefala system and life in the ME in ways your google search and TikTok sound bites will never tell you