DH and I argue about Dubai!

[handwringer82]

DH and I just can't agree on Dubai. I feel I don't want to go there on holiday. I don't want to pay my money to visit, and I have many reasons why, which are complex, and probably shared by some others on this forum, but not everyone I know.

Anyway, DH works in finance where many of his colleagues travel to Dubai, and holiday there. He'd like to go in his lifetime. Whenever he raises it I say I don't want to go, so he can go with work etc but I'd rather not go as a family with our DC, and he gets really cross about it. This topic is like a trigger disagreement which always turns into an argument. It's really annoying. On a wider level we've had marital issues and have been having counselling and been making progress but whenever this topic comes up we argue. I've tried to articulate my feelings but he just doesn't get it and thinks I should set it aside to go with him as it's somewhere he wants to go in his lifetime.

Anyone on here who feels strongly like me and would never want to go there on holiday? I'm struggling to articulate why to him or make him understand. I've said he doesn't even need to understand - just respect - but it's not enough. He says why am I happy going to US since I'm not a fan of their gun laws, buts it's not the same.

If my partner turned round and said he didn’t want to have sex with me ever, I very much would want to know why.

I would love to visit Botswana. My husband doesn't like the idea. So it was off the table. Conversation done and dusted in under a minute.

I will never ever step foot in dubai. It's not somewhere i have any interest at all in going to. I judge people who do go because of the slavery and women's rights.

Same. I wouldn't bother trying to save this marriage.

I wasn't really talking about forever, my point it about No means No. Whether its a one time No or an always No.

Yes but the OP is talking about forever. She very clearly has said she’s upset because she’s drawn a line and told her partner she will never go to the place he has always wanted to go.

I am curious as to what countries people identify as morally and ethically sound with strong human rights in place that ensures fair and equitable treatment for all?

I am guessing the people who are saying they would only travel to countries with equitable rights for all don't travel very much at all!

I've been to Dubai, didn't love it and no desire to go back. However not because of some moral highground. I have travelled the world during my life and been to dozens and dozens of countries - likely almost none of which would meet the standard for being moral and ethical countries with fair and equitable rights and treatment for all.

And I would wonder who many people with ethical objections are sure to only source their coffee, clothes, food, and other purchases here from countries with ethical practices and worker rights. Or are they actually more than happy to spend money supporting these countries despite their public objections that ehse countries morally and ethnically repugnant to spend travel dollars on.

There are a few people who actually practice what they preach and their homes, cupboards, vacations, lives, and expense sheets are evidence that they only support the most ethical and moral companies and places however that makes their world very small and life very expensive and few people live that way.

So if you are a moral / ethical highground person - where have you travelled to in your life?

This is how it would be in our house.

There's a whole wide world out there.

Why is the DH obsessed with Dubai?!

What's there that you can't get elsewhere?

*And I would wonder who many people with ethical objections are sure to only source their coffee, clothes, food, and other purchases here from countries with ethical practices and worker rights. Or are they actually more than happy to spend money supporting these countries despite their public objections that ehse countries morally and ethnically repugnant to spend travel dollars on.

There are a few people who actually practice what they preach and their homes, cupboards, vacations, lives, and expense sheets are evidence that they only support the most ethical and moral companies and places however that makes their world very small and life very expensive and few people live that way.*

I agree that most people do not live in a fully ethical way and do not base their decisions on the day to day basis on item origin and the chain of production and the circumstances thereof.

However, to me these are different things. Firstly, in choosing a holiday location, you choose one place at a time, compared to the myriad of choices around buying products in every day life - but we need to buy food regularly and we need clothes every so often. We can choose things that may be more ethical, but it is in relation to many transactions that we need to make. Secondly, in terms of the holiday, it is more visible and directly 'in your face'. Often we don't know that much about the particular circumstances of manufacture - even if you want to look into it a lot, companies attempt to portray themselves well and hide the information, so it's a partial picture, and because these chains are long, it's complicated. The fact that many Arab countries have severe restrictions on women and women are second-class citizens is well known. It's something that women feel is likely to affect them when they travel and even if not directly, something that they will see directly. It all depends too on the way in which the country is 'unethical' and what kinds of human rights abuses it commonly perpetrates - in law, not just in common practice. For me, the legal status of women is the most important concern. (Of course, we know that general societal sexism will be found everywhere).

I hate shopping - I'm an online shopper at M&S mostly. We have been going to Dubai for years and have only been to the shop a few times more so for my teen daughter. So the shopping centre in the dessert thing does not resonate with me at all.
I have boycotted Mauritius now after being there three times and realising what happens with international companies and the locals. So I am very conscious to what is really goes on in different countries.
But Dubai - each time I go I make an effort to talk to workers etc - people who say they rely on their jobs and tourism to send money home to their families in other countries. Jobs that are not our idea of ideal in the western world but jobs they feel are essential and better than what they could get back home.
I think everyone is entitled to their views on everything - but I have less respect for people who judge other people and other countries without even setting foot on their soil.
Dubai to you is what you have decided it is in your mind.

Yes, this is what I mean. You don't really care at all about your money dgoing to ethical or moral sources nor do you care about human rights. What you are against is Arabs and Muslims. When you hear those two words you think women do not have legal status, they have server restrictions on women and women are second class citizens. Your ethics and morals are highly tinged with racism and ignorance.

I am guessing you have never actually travelled to an Arab nation at all. Yet you will happily tell Arab and Muslim women what their experience is in a country you have never been to. Do you think an Arab Muslim woman in Dubai who has never been to Britain is best suited to tell you what your life is like as a British woman?

@CurlewKate

Would you go to Jamaica or Kenya?

I wonder if he particularly brings this topic up as he knows it ignites a flame. He wants an argument/to vent and he knows this is a perfect trigger for you.
My DH wants to go to Egypt in his lifetime- I strongly don't. So, we agreed he would at some point go alone or with a friend. We aren't joined at the hip, we can be autonomous too.
If I wanted to go the the opera or ballet, I know this would be my DH worst nightmare, and I wouldn't want him to do something he despised.
Holidays should ideally be a joint decision, somewhere both of you enjoy, rather than the other 'enduring'.

What do you like about it?

Yes, this is what I mean. You don't really care at all about your money dgoing to ethical or moral sources nor do you care about human rights. What you are against is Arabs and Muslims. When you hear those two words you think women do not have legal status, they have server restrictions on women and women are second class citizens. Your ethics and morals are highly tinged with racism and ignorance.

I am guessing you have never actually travelled to an Arab nation at all. Yet you will happily tell Arab and Muslim women what their experience is in a country you have never been to. Do you think an Arab Muslim woman in Dubai who has never been to Britain is best suited to tell you what your life is like as a British woman?

It's not only the women's rights, but the LGBT rights, and workers rights. I do try to make ethical choices over things like avoiding fast fashion, where I get my coffee and so on, and I care about climate change and do what I can, probably more than what is average. It's not always easy to make ethical choices in day-to-day life and I don't always, but a holiday is a massive one-off and costly decision, about which I usually spend a lot of time thinking.

I don't think my ethics in this issue are tinged with ignorance - I donate to Amnesty and read their literature, and I have also read the Human Rights Watch reports on the UAE. I'd like to know what you make of those.

As I said, I'm not solely thinking of women's rights, but no I would not presume to tell a woman in Dubai what her individual experience is. What I can do is read about the issues, and make a judgement for myself, based on my morals, what feels right, my own safety and peace of mind. On many levels I'd have to hide who I was in Dubai, and so would many of my friends, including Muslims, for a range of reasons, and I don't want that for a holiday we've saved up for thank you. I won't buy into their government's drive to try to gloss over the dark truth with glitzy materialism, and go there acting like nothing's wrong and it's all great, cos it's not. So no thank you all round.

Aside from everything you have listed above it comes across as tacky as fuck. The type of people in the city I come from who go to Dubai all have Turkey Teef, sunbed tans, too much lip filler, wear loads of Gucci print (yawn) and all have french bulldogs and screeching accents.
Give me Greece, Croatia or Italy any day!
You don't owe it to any country to go and visit it.
Yes there surely will be good people there and yes some people will enjoy it but at the end of the day if you don't want to go you don't want to go. You couldn't pay me to go to Dubai. I've had close family work in the ME for extended periods of time I've heard too much.
Fwiw I wouldn't go back to the USA either.

The snobbery on this thread is staggering.

People who slag it off have obviously never been.

It depends what you want from a holiday though, doesn't it? I'm not interested in skyscrapers, fancy hotels, luxury shopping centres or baking on the beach in sky-high temperatures, so of course I've never been, and none of the positives listed by people who like Dubai wpuld convince me to go.

It’s a lazy riposte from the usual suspects. I used to live there and loathed it.

@BethDuttonsTwin "The snobbery on this thread is staggering."

What's staggering is the complete disregard of human rights on this thread!

Except that if you actually felt this way you would not go to the USA either. If you had studied their human right violations with farm and migrant workers and horrible conditions they work in, the caged children at the border, the lack of women’s rights there, wealth polarization, the gun violence, racial discrimination and SES divide, drug and crime issues, high rates of incarceration, the mistreatment and torture of prisoners. etc etc USA does not meet any criteria for ethical or moral at all.

But this isn't about Dubai is it? It's about him not accepting your no. Have you ever said no to him before or have you always been the one to compromise?

I wouldn't want to go to Dubai either.

But I would also hate to be married to someone who hadn't got the confidence to holiday alone or with friends and expected us to be joined at the hip. My DH and I frequently holiday separately- he is much more active and loves to go skiing, hiking or camping ... so he goes without me. I am not that bothered about holidays so why should we spend £££s (all our money is shared & - within reason - neither of us would begrudge how it was spent) on a holiday I wouldn't enjoy? Pre Covid I did have some lovely 'beach' holidays which wouldn't have Interested my DH at all so what would have been the point of insisting he joined me?

Or maybe they have always gone where OP wanted.

I would never have a holiday in Dubai. Not my cup of tea at all. OH shares the same opinion though.

This is a hill I would die on.

Why is he so keen for you to go to a country where you will become a second class citizen? Where the morning after pill is illegal?

He can go with friends if he really wants to go.

It's so strange he won't go without you.