When does terrorism become war?

[mids2019]

Looking at the news this morning I think the media are finding it difficult to register Palestinian attacks as a terrorism event or simply an attack of one state against another.

I suppose whether you view 5000 tickets as a terrorist atrocity or a declaration of war is dependent on your views on whether Palestine can ever be a functioning state. We plainly in Europe would describe such events as terrorism in that civilian populations have been targeted but in the eternally challenged middle East the use of such a word has political connurtations.

Is this a terrorist attack on Israel?

Palestinians are under occupation - it's gone on for so long that fact is often forgotten.

So if you're under occupation it's not terrorism to every few years rise up against the occupiers, IMO.

Terrorism is a tactic that is used by states and non state entities both in wars and in other armed conflicts that are not wars. It’s not a seperate thing to war and not exclusive to non state entities. You’re right terrorism is targeted at the civilian population.

The most recent reports I have seen on Sky were 2,500 rockets and some attacks on tanks by Hamas and PIJ resulting in one Israeli death compared to counter attacks on the Gaza Strip by the IDF resulting in two Palestinian deaths.

Thus far, I haven’t seen reports of civilians being purposely targeted although given the history of the area that is sure to come from both sides.

So Hamas is “kidnapping” IDF soldiers as opposed to just killing them.

Sounds a bit like taking POWs because soldiers are a valid target in any armed conflict therefore such an action against enemy combatants is not seen as terrorism. (So long as all are adult soldiers).

I just thought the reporting interesting and fraught with politicAl nuances. I don't know if the rockets were launched against military or civilian targets but it seems Israel will want to portray these events as terrorist to garner sympathy globally and Palestine will view these actions as a part of a long running war between two nations (or populations at least).

I wonder what the world's view will be about the Israeli response as I am assuming it is going to be quite severe?

Oh, civilians are going to start dying as fighting continues on foot as this is urban warfare.

Israel is calling it a war- their PM has declared it is a war.

Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu 15mins ago:

"We are at war, not an operation, not rounds, but at war.
"This morning, Hamas opened a murderous surprise attack against the state of Israel and its citizens.
"We're in it since early morning. I convened heads of security, I instructed first to clear the villages from terrorists that infiltrated.
"This is taking place now.
"In addition I ordered a wide call for reservists to fight back with might and scope that the enemy did not know.
"The enemy will pay a price he did not know (until now).
"In the meantime, I call on all citizens of Israel to strictly obey the instructions of the army and the instructions of the home command.
"We are in a war and we will win it."

(from sky news)

And you’re right, Israel is calling Palestinian fighters “terrorists”
Doesn’t mean that is what they are though as the founding of Israel was done by European powers establishing what was essentially a post WWII colony.

When is war terrorism?
When is a military act terrorism?
When is a terrorist a freedom fighter?

Who gets to define it?

It's interesting when you go to other countries and read their history, see their plaques and see how they describe history

The UN decided each State can unilaterally define terrorism how they like in their own laws.

@Westfacing Hamas is recognised by our government as a terrorist organisation and our government has condemned their acts of terrorism against the state of Israel.
Isreal is not without fault but generous peace deals have been repeatedly rejected by the Arabs (Palestinians) who vow to wipe Isreal and the Jewish people from the face of our earth.
I would consider support of a terrorist organisation with this aim to be ant-Semitism.

It is very interesting! Especially when you read the history of opposing sides in a well known war. The perspectives are very different.

It's as simple or as complex as you want it to be.
I posted this on the other thread. Just make up your own mind.

Absolutely. And much as I don’t agree with Netanyahu and his government, the Israeli state as a whole cannot be compared to Hamas. Hamas are recognized as a terrorist organisation and that’s exactly what they are.

Travelling around India and looking at some of the memorials to what happened during the days of the Empire was interesting. Different perspectives.

generous peace deals have been repeatedly rejected
I haven’t seen any that were generous. In my opinion, they often mirror the peace deals the US Government offered the native Americans.

What is that map supposed to be though? It is not even accurate- just propaganda.

Post correct maps then. The ones posted match what is on Wikipedia. I know Wikipedia isn’t always correct, but at least that poster has a source other than propaganda for the maps.

It's showing the fact that in 1948 land was taken from what was Palestine to pre 1917 to create Israel. In-between it was Ottoman/ Turkish and under British rule.
This was done to give mainly, but not exclusively European Jews their own country.

It's indelibly complex history, but the fact remains that land was taken away from another country (people) to create a new one....

Wow, I’m kind of surprised about the comments here. Israel-Palestine is always complicated, but this was a surprise attack on civilians. Gunmen shot ordinary people in the streets, and at an outdoor rave in the desert. There are many many dead in Israel, and sadly the impact on the population of Gaza will be significant (not at all sad for the Hamas terrorists - they deserve everything they get).

Isn't the problem going to be in the following days that the Israeli response will undoubtedly have collateral damage? How does the IDF target a group that easily melt into the civilian population? What is the temptation for the Israeli response to be resentful rather than defensive?

The response from Western leaders is to actively support Israel's right to self defence while middle eastern countries are wishing restraint from both sides? Which view is correct?

Be glad you didn't see the other thread. I posted about my close friend who is in Jerusalem under attack with her three young children.

The gloating about Israeli civilian deaths was so appalling that the entire thread was pulled.

They are stripping Israeli women naked and marching them through the streets. Murdering elderly people on the streets. A significant number of posters here really genuinely don't give a shit.

As a British jew with family and friends under attack, it is distressing in the extreme to be reminded how for many people, Jewish deaths are something to be celebrated.

Both are correct.

@BlurredEdges

That is appalling. I do hope your friend is safe.

The occupation and genocide of the Palestinian population is an evil that has been ignored by the world.

That is one hundred percent a lie and propaganda. The language used is to provocate and anger a women majority forum with language like striping israeli woman naked( which will get any feminist riled up).