When does terrorism become war?

[mids2019]

Looking at the news this morning I think the media are finding it difficult to register Palestinian attacks as a terrorism event or simply an attack of one state against another.

I suppose whether you view 5000 tickets as a terrorist atrocity or a declaration of war is dependent on your views on whether Palestine can ever be a functioning state. We plainly in Europe would describe such events as terrorism in that civilian populations have been targeted but in the eternally challenged middle East the use of such a word has political connurtations.

Is this a terrorist attack on Israel?

Nelson Mandela?

On the US terrorist watch list till 2008

Why Nelson Mandela Was on Terror Watch Lists Until 2008 | Time

How do you fight oppression?
History has plenty of examples of way people fight back - some non-violently such as Gandhi and other ways, that can force Governments to change.

How ignorant you are - do you not realise that Israel withdrew entirely from Gaza in 2005?

Don’t waste your breath @Truthisbetterthanlies A lot these morons know FA. I’m embarrassed for them…

Was also on the other thread and can confirm there were no comments celebrating civilians deaths.

The Israel-Palestine conflict is so complex but what I find so frustrating is as soon as anyone shows any support or empathy for the Palestinians gets accused of being an anti-Semite or a terrorist sympathiser...

Someone on the last thread posted one simple sentence "Israel didn't exist until 1948" and someone replied "you are anti-semitic" 🤯

Have you not seen the Israeli women's corpse being stripped and desecrated (spat on) by Palestinians? The video - horrific - is all over social media.

As are the videos of elderly Jewish women being taken as hostages, young women with babies and clearly brutalised and beaten up young women being taken as hostage.

There are dozens of Israelis being taken hostage at the moment - including 50 just on a single kibbutz.

All of these things are war crimes.

Why aren't you condemning them???

The terrorist label is there to appeal to those who are happy to ignore the atrocities the Palestinians have to bear at the hands of Israelis.

Of course there should be balanced reporting, but the fact is there is no reporting at all unless it’s about Israelis being harmed. The suffering sustained by Palestinians is routinely ignored, but even more so when there’s reporting to be done about damage in Israel. It’s the way it’s always been in the countries that are responsible for helping to create the current mess and who prefer to turn a blind eye to illegal occupation by their allies.

How much control does Israel have over Gaza, its borders, sea access etc?
Exports?
Blockade of Gaza

Blockade of the Gaza Strip - Wikipedia

Well, didn't see the other thread so can't comment on that, but there are numerous apologists for civilian (Israeli) deaths on this thread.

Shame on all of you.

Raping and murdering civilians is not resistance. You don't see Ukrainians behaving like this to Russian civilians. If this is a war, then what is currently happening are war crimes. Like the murder of civilians in Bucha were war crimes.

Withdrawing from Gaza but blockading it by land, sea and air

I guess you knew that though.

Can you quote any examples?

Exactly.

Ridiculous that posters are trying to get the thread shut down for simply having a nuanced discussion. Nobody is supporting violence or inciting hatred, but here we are.

What are you basing this on?

@Truthisbetterthanlies

Sympathising with Palestinians is not the same thing as sympathising with Hamas.

Saying that violence is predictable in situations like this is is not condoning it.

Is it a competition for who can post the most ludicrous lies, or something?

You know that Gaza has TWO borders, right? One with Israel and one with Egypt?

Here you go, a little basic geography:

Egypt–Gaza border - Wikipedia

So tell me how Israel can impose a blockade on Gaza when it has another border with a sovereign, and Arab, country, on the other side???!

And show me why you aren't justifying murderous attacks against the Egyptians for 'blockading' Gaza, only against Jews Israelis?

No, but I would be open minded enough to understand that desperate people do desperate things.

Hate breeds hate.

the antisemitism here is absolutely horrific

Can you give direct examples of things that people have said that have been anti-Semitic?

Of course, I sympathise with ordinary Palestinians too, who deserve better than their murderous government.

But where is your sympathy for ordinary Israelis, who woke up today to the sound of sirens. Who are being hunted down like animals by Hamas soldiers with guns in their own homes, taken hostage in opposition to international law etc?

Why is your sympathy only for one side???

You've just proved that poster's point.

The exaggerated language against anyone who isn't 100% in support of Israel is ridiculous. I haven't seen anyone celebrate or condone the deaths of Israeli civilians.

If you have nothing to lose, then some people will try and make the oppression too much a price for a Government to pay.

We had a lot of IRA bombings during the Northern Ireland conflict.

If anyone watched the recent documentary, there were stories of buses being pulled over, pubs being targetted and civillians killed because of their religion.

Innocent civillians,.

Totally wrong - but you can see that some people will think that it's a way of making the actions a high price to pay and hopefully, in their view, changing the attitudes.

However, this is only going to make things worse.

I guess that for some people in Gaza, life can't get much worse.

On the contrary, it's clear that this thread is being used to post deliberate lies and disinformation.

Lies are not 'nuance'.

yes, the person up thread who
said the stripping and murdering of
women is just propaganda. If you can't see that sort of statement as antisemitic, I despair.

No, it is Hamas who are designated as a proscribed terrorist group globally. Not the Palestinian population as a whole, so the problem you imagine doesn't arise.

Speaking from experience of terrorism, it definitely cannot be assumed that every single Palestinian is in favour of the terrorism of Hamas.

The West Bank is governed by The Palestinian Authority whilst Gaza Strip is dictated by HAMAS.

So, the whole Palestinian population is not viewed as a legitimate target.

As for your last paragraph, what do you think any State can actually put out there to show you they're directing ops against terrorist groups?

Methods, ops and intelligence must all be kept secret in order to successfully undermine, contain and defeat a terrorist group. IIRC, only in Northern Ireland has a regular military been able to achieve the defeat of terrorist groups, especially ideologically.

@FloweryName I think that is really quite insulting to the oppressed people on whose behalf you claim to be speaking. Many desperate people do all sorts of brave and incredible things, and most desperate people do not commit mass murder of innocent civilians, or kidnap elderly citizens. The vast majority of oppressed people do nothing of the sort. Those who do are terrorists.

There is a huge difference between understanding and justification. I can understand why the children of abusers sometimes grow up to be abusers themselves. But it is still abuse, and the vast majority of abuse victims grow up to be good people who understand the different between right and wrong.

Even in extremis, people have the ability to make choices. It is understandable that some people make bad ones, but it is not inevitable.

They don't even look at 1938-1945.

Let alone 2,400 BC to the modern day. Persian invasion. Visigoths. Byzantine. Plus others - Alexander the Great. All the many, many diasporas. But no, many believe the origins of the State of Israel as a collective of the Jewish people only goes back as far as 1948.