When does terrorism become war?

[mids2019]

Looking at the news this morning I think the media are finding it difficult to register Palestinian attacks as a terrorism event or simply an attack of one state against another.

I suppose whether you view 5000 tickets as a terrorist atrocity or a declaration of war is dependent on your views on whether Palestine can ever be a functioning state. We plainly in Europe would describe such events as terrorism in that civilian populations have been targeted but in the eternally challenged middle East the use of such a word has political connurtations.

Is this a terrorist attack on Israel?

This is a report from Amnesty International on Israel

Israel's apartheid against Palestinians - Amnesty International

The state of Israel can, should and does exist. They should not expand on Palestinian territories and vote laws specifically to deprive Palestinians from their right.

Which Israel has done. It is not anti semitic to say that. And it is not denying the existence of the Isreali State to say that.

Defending the treatment of Palestinians is promoting genocide. You shpuld report yourself.

Yes exactly. Even if you accept the offensive ‘apartheid state’ trope (which I very much don’t), everything happening today is still horrifying and still terrorism. You don’t get to murder innocent civilians even in an apartheid state.

I am not saying Jewish people are terrorists or committing apartheid. I am saying the Israeli government is.

Regardless. You have still made an Anti-Semitic statement.

You might also want to get updated on modern international humanities. Care is needed when trying to segregate the Jewish people from the state of Israel. In some contexts they are the same. This is where people can run into trouble.

The innocent Palestinian people indeed had no part in this.. they are as ever victims of Hamas almost as much as the Israeli's are.

Lots of countries are run by nutters. The UK (under Liz Truss or Johnson). The US (under Trump). Iran. Saudi Arabia. Loads of them.

Are they all terrorist states in your book, then?

Is it therefore OK to massacre their civilian populations and take them hostage?

Or is strangely only OK to you when the state's majority religion begins with a 'J'?

And what does that say about you??

@Truthisbetterthanlies I have not seen one person condoning these actions but there have also been plenty of questionable actions from the Israeli side over the years. It isn't as simple as Israel - bad and Palestine - good or vice versa. Just because you can sympathise with Palestinians it doesn't mean you condone any actions that occurred today. You can condemn actions but understand these actions are part of a way wider picture that just today.

I do believe that Palestinians are being oppressed by the Israeli state but I also believe it isn't as simple an answer as just giving land back - this isn't realistic and as people have mentioned this history goes way further back than 1948. I don't think any solutions put forward by either side have been good enough and if I'm completely honest I'm not even sure there is an solution at this point - which is so sad for any civilian who lives in Israel or Palestine!

ADIT.. apartheid?? How does that explain the thousands of Arabs living happily in Israel? I don't see any Arab countries welcoming Israelis.

Hume is a great example. But Mandela really isn't!

Did Mandela found a terrorist group?

Yes.

Did Hume?

No.

Did Mandela carry out terrorist attacks?

Yes.

Did Hume?

No.

Did Mandela support the Provisional IRA and encourage them to keep weapons?

Yes, Mandela did.

Did Hume?

No.

Did Mandela renounce MK terrorism?

No.

Did Hume renounce and condemn Provisional IRA terrorism?

Yes.

Massive difference between John Hume and Nelson Mandela.

They would be terrorist States if they targetted a people like Israel has targetted Palestinians. Yes. Absolutely.

What is the significance of this? Do you think that that report (highly contested by the way) justifies war crimes against Israeli civilians?

If not, then say so.

If you do, then explain why you support war crimes when the victims are Jewish.

Democratic countries shouldn't be oppressing others. Shouldn't be forcing people from their land. Bulldozing houses.

Countries like Iran, Saudi Arabia - not democracies and I condemn their actions.

Israel is a member of the democratic international community.

What rubbish. You conveniently ignored the important bit in the previous post. The bit where @QuacketyQuack accused Israel of apartheid.

That is Anti-Semitism and I am quoting the definition under International Law.

*@Truthisbetterthanlies

What's your view on innocent Palestinian people, including children, being murdered by the IDF? Or being driven from their homes?

You accuse anyone who shows any sympathy for the Palestinians' plight of "not giving a shit" about Israeli civilians being attacked (even though many posters including me have said it's horrific and absolutely wrong).

But you don't seem like you have much sympathy for Palestinians who have been suffering for decades. Why is that?

Yeah well we’re not bombing and shooting innocent civilians, at least currently. I would have said the uk was a terrorist state when they were bombing Iraq.

I never said anything about Hamas not being terrorists. They are. Palestine is however not bombing Israel. Hamas is. The Israeli government is committing apartheid though. I never said Jewish people were, the zionists are.

I have nothing against Jewish people, I’m happy to let Jewish people live their lives. But when a government commits apartheid, that is where I am not happy. Nothing to do wi the Jewish people. Everything to do with a supposedly democratic state committing war crimes.

I never said hamas wasn’t committing g war crimes too. But Palestine is unfortunately not recognised as country by many.

It’s a bit selective to say “in 1948 this land was Palestine.” It wasn’t, it was the British mandate. If we’re going back in history, it is indisputable that the land was originally settled by Jews - the Al Aqsa mosque is literally built on the temple of Solomon. There should be one Jewish state in the world. This one seems to make the most sense. The rest of the (very wealthy) Arab world should generously resettle the Palestinians.

But saying that Israel is guilty of commiting apartheid (which they do, read Amnesty International's link) is not denying the existence of the Israeli state, as you say?

If you read my posts, you will see that I condemn the actions against civillians.

You will also see that I can understand that for some people who feel they are being oppressed, they can only see such actions as the only way to get Governments to change.

Do you understand that someone who feels like they have nothing to lose will do anything to get something to change?

You can condemn the actions. But do you understand that some people feel like they have nothing to lose?

(And it is possible to understand that some people feel like they have nothing to lose and also to condemn the actions that they do)

Are you suggesting that no other country fights enemies on its borders? Really?

What about say Saudi Arabia's targeting of civilians in Yemen - much larger numbers dead, in a much shorter period of time. Do you think that all Saudi civilians should therefore be fair game for war crimes?

Or let's try closer to home. Do you think that you and your family deserve to be murdered or taken hostage, because the British government is guilty of targeting other countries such as in the Iraq War?

Or is only dead Jews that you're quite comfortable with, and think are justified???

@cakeorwine I'm not sure there is any point in arguing your well thought out point because unless you are in full support of Israel, you will be deemed anti-Semitic. Which seems absolutely bonkers to me. Governments/states are allowed to be scrutinised...

I can understand that someone would be desperate enough to target UK civillians if they felt oppressed in their country and wanted the Government to change.

I would condemn it.

But I can understand that someone would feel it would be an action that could get results.

@Truthisbetterthanlies You are making absolutely no sense. Whatsoever.

You go from "UK is a terrorist country because Liz Truss was a nutter" to "What about Saudi Arabia..." when proven wrong.

Whataboutism is the cheapest tool of propaganda...

The modern state of Israel was set up as a Jewish homeland. As you know millions were killed in a genocide because they were Jewish. Being able to live anywhere without the threat of anti-Semitism and the further threat of genocide was the aim. Tell me what is wrong with that?