I just can’t fucking get on board with this one

[Streamorwatchlive]

From The Guardian today.

Never swear in front of your kids. Sandahl says swearing encourages a reduction in vocabulary. “‘Fuck’ is a catch-all word: but we’ve got a beautiful language, and we have so many words to express what we feel,” she says.

I’d like to see this evidence that by including swear words in your vocabulary that you are simultaneously reducing it overall. I swear like a trooper and I am a writer with a fantastic vocab (not a commercial tabloid type, this isn’t for a story don’t worry!)

In the real world, of course, we all swear occasionally: and, if you do, the important thing, says Sandahl, is to own it, to maybe laugh about it, to explain why you’re feeling frustrated. “Instead, be honest about the fact that you overreacted; ask your child what better word you could have used instead.”

first off I take issue with the fact that one might only swear when frustrated or angry. I rarely swear in aggression.

secondly, the thought of getting down to a 3 year old’s level and saying ‘let’s think of ten beautiful words mummy could have used instead of fuck’ is ludicrous.

I’d rather teacher my child that words are words and all words can be beautiful I’m the right context.

thoughts?

Kids are showing off to each other is all. Doesn't mean the parents are exemplifying or condoning it.

So with respect, that's bollocks.

There is an element of that, but if a 11 year old uses 'c**k sucker' something has gone wrong and the parents hold the responsibility

But you said parents are normalising that. They're not. Not necessarily anyway.

Me too I find it absolutely ignorant of people to swear with other peoples children around.
Interestingly my friends who do swear in front of their children are shocked when their children turn round and tell their parents or teachers to F off! Or call their parents fat C*^>s…..

I’m worried for future generations when a self proclaimed writer like op thinks you ‘teacher’ your kids too.

Some times only a swear word will fit the occasion

Have never sworn in front of my now adult children. They never swear in front of me or certainly very rarely. Yes I do judge people who swear all the time . And yes I do swear but there is a time and a place.

I try not to swear in front of my daughter, bit I do slip, occasionally. I always apologise. She's very much an enthusiast, I've warned her not to use bad language in front of Nana, or at school, explaining that some people find it upsetting, or offensive.

Swearing is part of language and quite normal, I'm not offended by it, but obviously don't real want to be close to people who swear every other word, when out with my girl.

I’m worried for future generations when a self proclaimed writer like op thinks you ‘teacher’ your kids too.

@T1Dmama do you know what’s really fucking annoying? When people try and prove their superiority by picking out an obvious typo. It’s almost as if you have no real debating skills to fall back on 🙄

Sometimes things just need a cuss word! Lol

It doesn't have to be the sign of a limited vocabulary.....but it often is. Not against it with older kids & adults but younger ones no.
There are lots of jobs/situations where swearing like a trouper wouldn't be a good thing so learning a degree of control when young would help future possible situations.
Also less use more effect👀🙄

It doesn't have to be the sign of a limited vocabulary.....but it often is

Actually most studies show the opposite

I always find those studies a bit weird. And I speak as someone with a real sailor’s mouth!

In my previous job, I spent a long time going round to houses on big estates. And the nature of the work meant I was almost exclusively in housing where there were lots of difficulties- teenage pregnancies, severely dysfunctional families, kids truanting from school and parents finding it funny, etc. I can tell you now that words like “cunt” and “fuck” were bandied around practically every other word. Most of these households were unemployed, no prospects of work, some struggled to read, lots of drugs etc. There were some families I really got on well with, they were lovely. Others were just fucking arseholes. But the one thing in common was the swearing - it was relentless. I have no compunction at all about swearing, but the level of profanity was ridiculous.

I have never heard swearing like that in circles of more educated people. Not ever. So I struggle to understand these studies that claim if you swear you’re more intelligent. As a woman who swears way too often, I have often joked about these studies - but I do wonder what the parameters were because it’s just not borne out by real life experience.

We’ve all met people who swear because they have a limited vocabulary and can’t express themselves succinctly in any other way. It may feel a bit judgemental to admit….but it’s true. I grew up on a rough council estate and I can remember swear words being screamed out of the windows of certain houses from a very young age. My family - incl my grandparents - also swore profusely. Some stereotypes are true 🤷‍♀️

Is there a direct link between intelligence and vocabulary or intelligence and socioeconomic status though @SpidersAreShitheads?

I have mixed with most classes in my life and have come across many public school educated "upper class" people (men and women) with absolute potty mouths. My Northern working class (on council estates) side of my family rarely did or do swear, it is pretty much frowned on unless it is said in a joke and never the F or C words. When I was a child they were pretty shocked at me saying the word 'fart'. So my world seems quite different to yours.

Stereotypes tend to be based on inaccurate generalisations. To quote Chimamanda Ngozi Adichie "the problem with stereotypes is not that they are untrue, but that they are incomplete. They make one story become the only story”

I was responding to someone else and agreeing with them.. not debating.. no point debating with someone who thinks swearing around children is ok

Entering a chat thread debating whether it’s ok to swear in front of children and then claiming there is no point debating whether it’s ok to swear in front of children is a bit like going to a salsa class and deciding it’s futile to learn salsa. And not debating so loudly and proudly could be construed as a contribution to the debate in itself. So a bit like dancing out of the salsa class whilst it’s being declared futile.

Society has changed. even as an adult I would not have sworn in front of my parents but my kids and grandkids swear in front of me, doesnt bother me at all.
Some people I think swear as habit and maybe there is a bit of dont know a bit word but these days fuck doesnt have the same shock factor.
i agree at times saying 'oh dear me i wish i could have counteracted that so it did not inflict injury as it fell on my foot' is nowhere as good as saying fuck it!

No it's foul language, and I think there's no need for it, it's like a lot of old smelly rubbish coming out of your mouth, especially seeing young girls use it , when they dress so nice, and then they open their mouth, not ar all attractive

I do actually agree with the smelly rubbish thing. Quite often when someone swears, the same part of my brain that lights up when someone drops a silent but deadly fart also starts flashing when people start swearing.

@SpidersAreShitheads I grew up on a similar estate and my friend's mum said 'bloody' (which was the equivalent of 'fuck') every five seconds, 'so I bloody said to him, I'm not bloody coming down there, can you bloody believe it?'

Thing is, there's no real risk to middle-class people of swearing. This is not true for poorer families. There was a thread on here the other day in which the dad was swearing using the C word at the children, and the OP was told this was child abuse and to report to SS. It's horrible to swear AT people, in any way, but had some middle-class person said 'you little shit Anthony' or whatever, no one would have suggested reporting them to SS, indeed they may have remarked that Anthony was indeed a little shit.

Context matters, and those who are already disadvantaged are not advantaged by having swearing heavy vocab that doesn't fit with what the mainstream find acceptable.

it's like a lot of old smelly rubbish coming out of your mouth, especially seeing young girls use it , when they dress so nice, and then they open their mouth, not ar all attractive

’young girls’ don’t exist to be attractive to you. Stop being a misogynist

I’m rather sweary. Sometimes out of frustration but often just for emphasis. I really toned it down in front of the kids when they were little (although was obviously not completely successful as I remember DD aged 2 or 3 trying to complete a jigsaw puzzle and saying: ‘this is really pissing me off’, much to the horror of my mother who was there at the time).

The kids are 18 and 15 now and I swear pretty freely in their earshot now (I have never directed a swear word at them, nor at my husband for that matter- that would feel aggressive and hostile). The 18 year-old is quite sweary but knows not to do it in front of her grandparents etc. The 15 year-old swears with his friends (I hear him when he’s gaming) but doesn’t swear in front of the rest of us.

I'm a woman 😊

Doesn’t mean it’s not a misogynistic viewpoint just because you’re a woman.

Well I'm not, it's just a shame , so many have to lower themselves to that level, do you think it's nice to listen to? Are expletives the only words people can think to use these days?

@Mollypolly123, I can’t speak for the other sweary posters, but as a prolific swearer I obviously adjust my speech to suit different settings. So I’m not effing and jeffing loudly while on a bus or in a restaurant or in front of customers at work or standing next to a children’s playground. But with my family and friends, yes I swear a fair bit.