I just can’t fucking get on board with this one

[Streamorwatchlive]

From The Guardian today.

Never swear in front of your kids. Sandahl says swearing encourages a reduction in vocabulary. “‘Fuck’ is a catch-all word: but we’ve got a beautiful language, and we have so many words to express what we feel,” she says.

I’d like to see this evidence that by including swear words in your vocabulary that you are simultaneously reducing it overall. I swear like a trooper and I am a writer with a fantastic vocab (not a commercial tabloid type, this isn’t for a story don’t worry!)

In the real world, of course, we all swear occasionally: and, if you do, the important thing, says Sandahl, is to own it, to maybe laugh about it, to explain why you’re feeling frustrated. “Instead, be honest about the fact that you overreacted; ask your child what better word you could have used instead.”

first off I take issue with the fact that one might only swear when frustrated or angry. I rarely swear in aggression.

secondly, the thought of getting down to a 3 year old’s level and saying ‘let’s think of ten beautiful words mummy could have used instead of fuck’ is ludicrous.

I’d rather teacher my child that words are words and all words can be beautiful I’m the right context.

thoughts?

I seriously cleaned up my act when I had my kids, to the point that when one of my daughters was six, she asked a school friend to teach her a naughty word because she didn't know any! 😂I knew I was slipping into bad habits when my youngest, then aged about nine, started using words like crappy and git in conversation. Nothing dreadful, but not words I wanted her to use in front of her teachers, or her grandmother. We had a chat and all decided to try harder.

Now, the pair of them are 15 and almost 18, so those days are long gone. We permit the kids to swear if they want to, and I have to say they tend to save it for particularly frustrating or ridiculous situations, and have managed to keep their language respectful, ie no name-calling or insulting language. I did tell my 17 year old off a while back for using three fucks in one sentence, because I don't want to hear it all day long. Sometimes it really is the only word that will do, but it can lose its impact I reckon!

one of my favourite memories of my DCs is a car journey with them when they were about 6 and 8. The older swore “fuck” and I caught them both in the mirror with the funniest aghast, “we’re in trouble look” I explained that there are lots of swear words, there are lots of times and places that they are not appropriate to use. Then gave permission there and then to tell me all the swear words that they know. Out came “Shit, piss, poo, bum etc” with peals of guilty laughter. Then I asked them to explain each word (with the premise that they shouldn’t use words that they don’t understand) They couldn’t explain fuck, so I gave them a sex ed lesson and they were begging me stop with this disgusting information. Not heard it said again since 🤣🤣🤣

The fact they have heard swearing isn’t the issue here, it’s the overall culture of the family. If you never swear in front of your children they will still learn the words, and if you tell them off every time they do it they might learn not to do it in front of you but nothing else.

Ive never censored my language around my children- they know that swearing exists, they know which words are swear words and they know that we have one rule- we do not swear at people in an angry or aggressive manner. They also know if they swear at school they will get in trouble with the teacher so they don’t do it. In fact they hardly ever swear at all.

@PeppermintMandy try reading this. https://www.sciencealert.com/swearing-is-a-sign-of-more-intelligence-not-less-say-scientists

Research published in an established peer reviewed journal. This has nothing to do with poverty of vocabulary theory which states that children growing up in lower-income families hear up to 30 million fewer words than those from bigger socioeconomic groups.

I don’t have a son

if I did I wouldn’t accept him calling a woman a slut no. Like I wouldn’t either.

there’s a gulf between ‘what a fucking great cake‘ and ‘you slut’ and you’d do well to understand the difference

The worst words out a parent's mouth to a young child IMO is shut up (directed at them), or obviously even worse, shut the fuck up. Just awful. Poor children.

Agreed, but what’s this got to do with the price of fish!!!???

This research just shows that those who have a wide vocab also have a wide swearing vocab and vice versa. It's not about real-world use of swearing
(apart from the not-surprising results that pilots about to crash often swear...)

Dd is 19 and still doesn't swear in front of me. Ds is 9 and a bit more liberal than dd. He is allowed to say certain grown up words at home, such as crap, bloody, bugger but not in 'polite' company. Meanwhile I fuck, bastard, shit and cunt all over the shop because O am a grown up and allowed grown up words like I am allowed coffee, wine, vodka and gin. I never swear at my kids or in anger or aggression.

https://amp.cnn.com/cnn/2021/01/26/health/swearing-benefits-wellness/index.html

I pasted the wrong one above

Well, I will hold my hands up and say I've probably failed as a parent by MN standards anyway . My son told his older sister tonight, to fuck off. He's not even 10 yet. She had been winding him up something shocking. In her eyes banter. He's never ever sworn before, he's very patient and quiet. Worryingly she was impressed at the comeback, as though it was some sort of badge of honour. I'd go as far as saying they even bonded over it 🙄

Exactly this. I would never allow the word slut (unless used in a’she has been slut shamed type of conversation). I also don’t allow bitch/cow or any other misogynistic language. I don’t think of that as being about the swearing though, that’s about passing on and teaching values.

I feel better after reading this thread! I’ve been pulled up 3 times in the last month about how much I swear. Glad it’s not just me with a potty mouth!

I assume one of your favourite books is James and the Giant Peach. And maybe The Very Hungry Caterpillar?

I like that Bluey uses 'swear words' for kids. 'Biscuits!' and 'Cheese and Crackers!' are often used for in this house. Swear words are an outlet, even when they aren't real 'swear words'.

My 5 yr old said shit completely appropriately the other day when pulling on the freezer door and it broke. I just told her that was a appropriate use of the word but it's a grown up word. No drama, moved on. 🤷

Yeah DS uses “biscuits!”. I don’t particularly like swearing in front of the kids but usually when there’s a “for fucks sake” moment I’m definitely more likely to say that than “biscuits”. I’m not mad that Bandit Heeler has more influence over him that I do.

I almost never swear. I really hate it. DH doesn't swear either. There was a woman at work who said fuck every third word and it was so hard to focus on my work if she was talking to someone within earshot (most people at my workplace rarely swear either). It was totally unnecessary and added nothing to the conversation.

I swear all the time. I try not to but it’s in my nature. However my DCs are not under any circumstances ever allowed to use nasty or swear words to insult or hurt someone else. It’s the real world. Why are we so afraid of language - a well timed fuck when you stub your toe is totally fine.

🤣🤣

Both are on the same shelf as Fox's Socks, Each Peach Pear Plum and my personal favorite Babies First 100 words. It's a pretty empowering read. Give it a try you might learn something.

Oh, I've learnt plenty of things, thanks. Like "alot" isn't a word, "practising" is spelt with an 's' and "entomology" doesn't mean what you think it means...

Please sir, excuse my spelling and grammatical errors I clearly meant etymology and alot is considered an accepted word. Practising; well I'll blame the fact that I was breast feeding a fussy, refluxy (yeah that ain't a word either) baby. Please feel free to rank my use of multiple adjectives.

One shall endeavour to proof read in the future. Maybe.

So OP, are you ok with your 8yr old using words like “cunt” as well?

Not intending to sound goady, genuine question. Cunt is still considered taboo by many adults but it is still just a swear word.

Kafka's Metamorphosis 😂

I don't really swear. Neither does dh. But that didn't stop ds from having a very full and complete swearing vocabulary by the end of 2 weeks in reception, thanks to a little girl in his class who taught the others.

My take was simple. You have to be able to communicate well without swearing. You have to understand societies norms and be able to follow them (unless you are actually choosing not to.)

On that basis we told ds that certain wrods are not acceptable to teachers and in school, and that it was a skill to express himself without resorting to swearing. When he was older he challenged that, and I listed a long list of jobs where swearing is not allowed (from check out at tescos, to lawyer in court room) and that you have to be able to communicate without swearing so it was a good thing to learn. Go ahead and swear if you want when out with friends etc, but at home or at school no.

I think it is a bit shit really to swear in front of small children and yes, I think it shows a lack of something. In most work places I think it shows lack of respect for others too, because it still is a the norm not too.

Just look at the police live feed dramas. If the person they are dealing with is continuing to swear they tell them not to and at some point can even arrest them for it! (although they call it something like disturbing the peace)

That is very true . It’s the sentiment behind the words that counts .