What is going to happen to all the litters of xl bully puppies?

[Wanttobeok]

So now that XL Bullys are going to be banned by the end of the year (fully in support of that) what is going to happen to all the puppies?

Currently on gumtree for my city alone there are about a dozen adverts for litters of this "breed" so across the country it must be hundreds.

I can see that the prices have already been massively reduced but who is going to buy one now knowing that it will have to be on lead, muzzled etc

What will these breeders do with all the unwanted puppies.

It occurred to me that if they release them into the wild then we could have packs of wild dangerous dogs roaming around...

Based on...what?

Looking at him?

DNA is a bit more reliable than looking at a dog...

When two dogs breed you can get any kind of combination as a result. People expect 50% chi, 50% border collie to look like an actual mix of the two dogs but that isn't how genetics works.

You could have the same breed pairing and end up with a litter of puppies that look 90% like border collies and then ones that look 90% like a chi.

Both would have 50/50 DNA.

Why did the rescue centre re-home the dog which killed the dog walker if it was a banned breed? Rescue centres should be putting these types of dogs to sleep humanely. I think rescue centres appear to be run by people who want to save all dogs rather than considering if it is the best interests of the dog or the population to be kept.

Reading that article, she got the dog from a neighbour not a rescue centre. Obviously I have sympathy for the woman, what a dreadful way to die, but lordy she does seem to have made some extremely poor decisions.

Either way...the alternative is basically making up a breed standard which is even more likely to catch a significant % of similar dogs that aren't banned.

It's also completely subjective and difficult if you buy a similar dog that you don't expect to meet that standard but then they grow a bit more than anticipated...

DNA is a clear, objective and consistent way of approaching this.

Even if it isn't 100% reliable, it's more reliable than making up a breed 'type' and leaving many, many different people to apply that.

In that case, DNA is not reliable as a way to ban dogs, surely?

If DNA testing can 'reveal' a dog that does not look or behave like a breed, is in fact that breed, then what good is it to us?

You'd end up targetting dogs that neither look nor behave like pit bulls. Are they really the dogs we want to ban? Meanwhile, one that looks and behaves like one but does not have the dna, gets a pass? That seems mad, to me.

However, I suspect neither you nor I are really genetic experts. So we'll just have to see what the paid experts end up using as a way to identify XLs, won't we?

Erm...all of them basically. They can all be traced back to pit bulls eventually.

XL bullies are pit bulls crossed with other breeds (though this may be some generations back).

@GlowingBees that dog looks like a perfectly plausible result of a collie/chihuahua crossing.

There is no 100% reliable way.

That's why the real world has difficult challenges. You have to decide what the best way out of several options are and none of them are 100% reliable.

Why would you want to ban a dog that looks like an XL bully but has none of the interbreeding or genetic issues than an XL bully has?

It would be no more likely to snap and attack someone than any other dog.

Whereas in your example, a dog with the interbreeding and genetic propensity to launch unprovoked attacks on humans would be okay because it didn't look quite like an XL bully?

That is madness to me.

I think we need to understand that the root cause of the issues with this breed are genetics.

Yes, these are exacerbated by some of the idiots that own them but a number of the fatalities have been family pets with no prior history of aggression.

They are very, very badly interbred and from lines with known human aggression.

The problem with them isn't that they're big dogs with big teeth. Lots of breeds including my own dog are big dogs with big teeth. It makes no odds because they don't attack.

The problem is their genetic breed propensity to snap and launch unprovoked attacks on humans (at which point the big dogs with big teeth thing does matter).

That's why using DNA is the best option to identify them, not through looks.

(And I do know a fair amount about genetics but I agree that none of us will be making the decision so we'll wait and see...)

Other countries are much stricter than us when it comes to owning certain breeds. Staffies are banned in Germany for example and in Spain and France they have much stricter rules. I'd be interested to see their stats on dog attacks.

@VeloVixen

An American Bull Terrier is basically the same dog as an English Bull Terrier.

They're the ones with the funny shaped snout that are less common.

XL Bullies don't tend to have American Bull Terrier in them as this isn't the type of facial feature that's in demand.

They also aren't any bigger or more muscular than a Staffy type so wouldn't be of interest to an XL breeder for that reason.

XL bullies tend to be American Pit Bull Terriers mixed with other breeds. If purposefully bred then this will tend to be anything they think will make it look bigger, more muscular, etc.

Things like the various mastiff type breeds - Cane Corso, Presa Canario, etc tend to have been used for the ones that are tall as well as muscular.

The more old-fashioned bulldogs for those that are wider and more squat.

Many of them will have quite a mixed heritage between pit bull and a few different mastiff and/or bulldog and/or Staffy and/or anything else you can think of but pit bull is the base breed that they all descend from.

Obvs there are also accidental breedings which can be with anything.

Again, not sure why we're trying to broaden this to breeds that have been in the UK for 100+ years?

Staffies are nothing to do with the rise in fatalities so this makes no logical sense?

If we ban dogs with more than x% Pit Bull DNA then the large rise we've had stops. It wasn't seen as a problem before that?

Absolutely. There are a lot of opinions on XL Bully's from people who know nothing about dogs. These dogs have Pitbull blood in them. There is absolutely no need to own dogs like this. The breeding behind them was purely for the purpose of dog fighting.

I first spotted a surge in the numbers of them about 3 years ago. How many deaths and injury has been caused by them since then?

Litters being brought into one our local vets whilst lads in suped up cars, all the bling waited outside with adult dogs, cropped ears, the lot. Bitches hanging with milk. Sure you can picture the image. These dogs have fetched thousands and have been lucrative for drug dealers.

There is NOT ONE responsible breeder of these dogs because they should not be being bred. There are a new made up type of dog purely bred to make money. They serve no purpose other than as a dangerous fashion accessory for the thickest people in society.

Anyone spouting "it's not the breed" was clearly reared badly themselves or simply not born with any common sense. The breeding and keeping of this type of dog (not breed, they are not a sodding breed for the millionth time) is as socially unacceptable and destructive as gang violence and drug dealing.

This YouTube video shows some of the people responsible for this 'breed' in the UK.

No background in dog breeding. No understanding of genetics at all.

They openly talk about the fact that most dogs come from specific lines without realising that interbreeding is a massive problem that, even if it hadn't resulted in this aggression issue, would have condemned the poor dogs to god knows what other genetic health problems.

They are also the ones that took multiple cases to court to ensure American Bullies couldn't be considered 'pit bull types' under existing legislation.

The burden will be on you to prove he isn't an XL Bully.

Was he from a KC breeder? If so, do you have his paperwork?

If you do, then this should be enough to prove he is exempt.

If you don't then you bought from a backyard breeder and this is one of many, many reasons you should do that...

I would recommend paying the £70 to get the Embark DNA test done so that you have evidence of his breed if only to put your own mind at rest that you have something to show any dog warden or member of the public that questions it.

I'd like to see more dog breeds have to have rules in place - ie muzzling.
I absolutely hate walking and dogs come bounding up to me and the owners always say "don't worry, she won't hurt you"
They should be on leads.

There's a Tiktok video of an XL Bully dog attacking an 11 year old girl going into a shop, luckily people get the dog off her but then it goes on a rampage knocking over some men and just attacking them..scary stuff.

@VeloVixen thank you for link.

@wheresmymojo there is lots of advice on this at the moment. The police cannot just seize a dog, they need a warrant. Don’t sign any paperwork and don’t let the police in or give your pet to them.

I would also like to see compulsory muzzling of certain breeds/crossbreeds. I was out running with my friend and her two dogs this week. We were running along a narrow path in woodland when we came upon a guy walking in the opposite direction with a huge Rottweiler on a choke chain. He had it on a really short leash and was clearly holding it back. We stepped off the path to let him go by and just after he passed us his dog suddenly went nuts, barking and trying to get at my friend's dogs. The guy was only just capable of holding the bloody thing back - if it had got loose I hate to think what would've happened. Dogs like that should never be un-muzzled in public IMO.

Countries with the highest number of dog bite bite fatalities between 1995 and 2016 include: Hungary (94), France (79), Romania (67), United Kingdom (56) and Poland (49).5 May 2021

I managed to sit through 25 minutes of that video , but my brain got saturated by all the names and the talking of bone and bulk . I couldn't sit through all of it .
I did look on Bossy's website who are mentioned on here .

They mentioned breeding littermates and Father/Daughter which I don;'t know how common it is , obviously the dogs don't care they are siblings , but it cannot be a good idea genetically .
But here are breeders who are stopped by someone in the street asking abiut their dog as they have a female they want to breed. So how much research into the background and improving the bloodline ?
Or is it all "he;s got bulk and a massive head " is that enough to choose the dam/sire ?

And what will be their next move when the industry dries up ?
Will they take these dogs back ?
All good breeders are meant to take the dog back if any issues - lifetime guarentee .

DNA is not used to prove a breed, I wish people would read the current DDA legislation, dogs are condemned to life on lead and muzzled in the basis of a measuring tape; more often than not they've done nothing wrong.
DNA, KC papers do not count.

Hahaha erm no. Of course not. So the cycle will continue….

If the Daily Fail is to be believed, it didn't come from a rescue centre, but from a neighbour who had neglected it and had planned to put it down after it bit the child. There wasn't the usual safeguard of a rescue assessing the dog's behaviour before rehoming or offering backup.

As ever in life, hindsight is 20/20.

In my 20s I adopted a dog - albeit a much smaller one - in broadly similar circumstances. Friend who couldn't look after the dog anymore for genuine reasons that weren't the dog's fault. He'd been rehomed several times before, and was still young. I already knew the dog well - well enough that I walked him frequently, knew he had issues and he had redirected a couple of bites onto me, so I knew what I was getting myself in to. Over several years - and some blood, sweat and tears - we made a really good fist of things - perfection is unobtainable but he can manage anything from a house party to group dog walks, which is pretty good by anyone's standards.

I'm childfree, so I'd have no qualms about taking a dog that found living with children too much. Much progress can often be made when a neglected dog is rehomed with an owner that knows what they're doing and meets their needs. My position on that hasn't and won't change.

I do have a personal rule not to take on a dog which is ultimately stronger than me - but that's only a rule I really developed after having the first dog with issues - by chance a small one. I can't say I'd given it a lot of thought before that.

In many ways I made very similar decisions to Natasha - the main difference is that the dog which fell into my life was much smaller, under 10kg. I don't regret my decisions, and I'd do the same thing again.

I think we can all look back at decisions we made at various points in our life (especially our 20s!) and think that perhaps we could have made better decisions with hindsight. Natasha could have made better decisions with hindsight - but she's no different to most of us in that regard. She just paid an incredibly heavy price for those decisions.

Hindsight is 20/20.