Should I be helping my unemployed dd (21) get a job? Or does that make me a nightmare helicopter parent??

[Helicoptera]

Advice wanted - my lovely, competent 21-year-old dd who graduated from uni this summer with a 2:1, has still not found a job. In fact, she has never had a paid job, either before uni or during the holidays. Some of this is down to lockdown, which limited her opportunities to work before/whilst studying. Some of it is down to her (mistakenly I think) turning down a low-level job she was offered in her second year, thinking she'd get a better one - but she didn't. Some of it is down to her being dyslexic, and struggling a little with executive function.

But I think a lot of it is that she, for whatever reason, is determined to do it all herself and not take advice from anyone. Which is a perfectly fair position. Except it's manifestly not been bearing fruit.

Should add she's not even looking for a graduate job at all, which in some way makes it harder. Partly because of the dyslexia, she's keen not to get a standard graduate office type role. She's absolutely passionate about cooking, and wants to get a job in a restaurant so she can have a career working with food, as a chef or something similar. But I think it means that she's getting turned down by restaurants, because they assume that as a graduate, she's not serious about a low-level hospitality job, and will be off the second she gets a better job.

Or that's my guess. I don't know - as my dd refuses point blank to show me or my dh any of her applications, CVs, or discuss them with us! So I have no idea how bad they are.

Dh and I are finding it agonising watching her get rejected from job after job and not being able to help in any way. Especially as we helped both her older sister and younger brother get jobs, by helping them draft CVs and covering letters, and helping them with interview practice!

So please advise - should I just bite my tongue and back off, as she wants? Or should we continue offering help, for her to access when she's ready? Or encourage her to share her applications with us, so we can help?

I don't really understand why she won't let anyone help her - both dh and I help each other with applications and were happy to accept help ourselves when we were first starting out, from family members with more experience.

If anyone understands where she's coming from, can you explain, and say what you'd like to happen if you were her? It's got to the point now where she just will shut down any remote reference to the topic - meaning that I have no idea what the issue is or what she wants.

Aaagh - so frustrated as I know she'll love it once she starts working and I'm sure will be great at it. Please help.

Have you had a non-judgemental but direct conversation about the fact that it's a bit counterproductive to refuse all offers of help?

Also is there scope to volunteer to at least get some experience?

How badly does she need a job? To pay rent etc?

I think it's fine to give guidance, but not take over. If she wants to work with food does she have anything food related by way of qualifications? If not look for kitchen porter/assistant jobs in places that might be less picky eg the care sector, she needs someone to give her a first break then can move on from there

I know when I was trying to get my first job after university, I found any help my parents offered really difficult because I felt like they had a very set idea about what I should do and I felt very deeply that I didn’t want to let them down. It was all just a bit too emotionally loaded for me and it made me clam up and brought my stubborn streak out.

What solved it for me was my brother in law (my older sister’s husband) offering to have a look at my CV for me (probably at the behest of my sister / mother). He was closer to my age, had more recent experience of getting a starter job, and importantly whilst I liked him and trusted him, he was able to be a lot more objective and matter of fact than my parents were. It took a lot of the emotions out of it for me and felt more like a friend helping - which also helped my self esteem feel a bit less in question.

Is there somebody else who could try and find out what’s going on? One of her siblings? A favourite aunt or godparent? A family friend? Anybody you know who works in hospitality / the food industry? I think the key thing is trying to make it seem casual rather than engineered.

Either you helicopter or someone else needs to. She definitely needs help but whether you can persuade her of that depends on whether you have any leverage. If you are supporting her financially it would be reasonable to insist that she contacts her uni careers service for help or allows you to support her with applications

What did she study at uni and why did she go if she doesn't want to use her degree?
Is she being fully funded by you so no impetus to actually work as she has a safety cushion?

She's back living with us and we're not currently charging her rent, as she's not earning, so that would seem a bit mean! She was quite a frugal student so still has a little cash left over from her student loan, so part of the issue is she doesn't urgently need money either, so hasn't got that motivation to pull her finger out on the job front either.

But what she doesn't seem to get is that if she doesn't get a job soon, she will be pretty unemployable, as any prospective employer will assume there's something wrong with her, as she's got to 21 without ever having managed to hold down a paid job (she did a tiny bit of volunteering to put on her UCAS form in the Sixth Form, that was her only work experience, and not relevant to what she wants to work in anyway).

She studied art history, so not brilliant on the vocational front.

She went to uni because she didn't know what else to do and comes from a family where we tend to do academic degrees and get graduate jobs - but then found the degree harder than anticipated as the dyslexia impacted her studies more at uni than school.

The passion for food has been growing over the time she's been at uni and she now realises, which she unfortunately didn't when she was 18, that that's the area she'd like to work in. Agree with you that it would have been good if she'd known that before she started the degree, but she didn't.

She asked a friend she trusts for help with her CV. But unfortunately whatever advice she got has not helped at all!!!

I know this doesn't answer your question but some voluntary work would massively improve both her cv abd her confidence.

Can she get something like a bar job or pot washer in the meantime? Or are those the sorts of things she's being rejected for?

I have to say I was a bit like this with my parents - as per PP, they were worried like you or had expectations, and it felt quite pressurised. So I just stopped talking to them about it.

And I'll be honest- this sounds pretty intense
we helped both her older sister and younger brother get jobs, by helping them draft CVs and covering letters, and helping them with interview practice!

Cannot imagine either of my parents faux interviewing me!!

She needs help but not from you. A friend/aunt etc. I actually think in many ways it's great she's so determined to do it herself and not rely on her parents. Good for her. She'll learn a lot and I'm sure she'll find something eventually.

Honestly if it was my daughter I’d be telling her that she needs to sign up at an agency to do temp work while she’s looking. She needs to get any job asap. Doesn’t matter if it’s in a factory or warehouse etc. any job is better than no job on her CV.

If she can demonstrate that she’s happy to graft she’s more likely to get an employer looking at her and saying “she may have an art history degree but she doesn’t mind gettIng stuck in”.

Her university will probably still offer her careers advice. Most offer it 3-5 years after graduation and some for life.

Maybe your advice can be to suggest she goes back to them?

To be blunt sounds like she went to uni as probably felt it was expected

your degree is a stepping stone to your chosen career path
like a solicitor doing a law degree

her degree and the career she want to peruse aren’t relevant to each other

she needs to forget the degree for the time being and start looking for apprenticeships in the food industry

My DS is back home allegedly saving for gap year travel but done no research or planning. Took 2 months to get a PT job. It’s painful progress. I made him claim UC and he got support from them with CV and obviously there are job search conditions with UC. Xmas jobs are now being advertised at same time students are due to go back to uni so there will be temp jobs on offer over next few weeks. I agree being in a job, any job is better than having zero work experience.

What about training in food? What options are there? An extreme example but I have a friend who was five years into medical school, took a year out, did the Ballymaloe 12- week diploma, and subsequently has had a career in food (mixture of private chefing, running supper clubs out of a local Manor House, and a food truck — which she prefers to running her own restaurant).

It’s expensive (about €15,000, and accommodation is extra), but it’s extremely well-regarded and often full of people changing direction.

But there must be all kinds of other food training options.

If she wants to be a chef then she needs to train in that area, even if she sees it as a step down academically after doing a degree. Your local FE college must do catering courses - can you fund her through that?

She can do her basic Food Hygiene certificate online, that would look good on a CV in terms of taking the field seriously. And then perhaps she could start making and selling cakes/biscuits/whatever at a market?

How widely is she applying? Lots of hospitality places are absolutely desperate for staff. Is she only going for jobs where she would need a catering qualification?

What restaurant jobs is she applying for? There is such a broad spectrum of roles there!

I work in hospitality and have for years, happy to answer any questions. Where I am everyone is desperate for staff so I'm surprised she isn't getting anything.

Actually, this isn't necessarily true.
Otherwise why do we still offer courses which don't directly link to specific jobs?

The UK graduate labour market doesn't work that way. Around 80% of graduate jobs don't ask for a specific degree subject, they just want to to have studies at degree level. In fact, subjects like history are well regarded because of the skills developed.

Does she still have access to the University's career guidance service? If so can you suggest that?

It's hard watching adult children struggle, but it is also a learning curve for them.

I second the PP who advised signing up with an agency. She'll definitely get work, it may be low paid and hard work but it will start her off.

IMO she needs to apply for UC this morning (it’s on line but they will set up meetings etc to get her benefits), then go on indeed or similar before 9 midday and after 5 and apply for any jobs she can (wk1 in kitchens, there after any). She should be able to secure a job fairly quickly. NOTHING focuses the mind on what you want faster than being bored shitless on minimum wage. As soon as she’s working she should be paying you costs (£100pw?) to cover her hot water and food, but in all honestly I think you could give her a few months to feel the cash in her life.

If she’s really interested in food would an apprenticeship be an option?

I would advise her to do a proper catering course to get chef skills. Where in the country are you based? However as she is over 21 she would have to pay.

In the meantime she could do her basic food safety & hygiene certificates online at home and then head out to all the cafes and restaurants and see if anyone is hiring kitchen assistants.

However I still don't understand why she has never had any job. Covid is no excuse really. She would have been 16 well before covid. My dc and their friends have all had jobs through sixth form and hospitality was one of the first areas to open back up. Never mind supermarkets etc being open the whole way through.

Actually she could consider one of the specialist catering courses for chalets and then head out and do ski season working in a chalet? I think they are 1-2 weeks.

I don't know how much the course is, but what a great way to get experience and do a bit of travelling/living abroad. Plus get a load of catering experience.