Should I be helping my unemployed dd (21) get a job? Or does that make me a nightmare helicopter parent??

[Helicoptera]

Advice wanted - my lovely, competent 21-year-old dd who graduated from uni this summer with a 2:1, has still not found a job. In fact, she has never had a paid job, either before uni or during the holidays. Some of this is down to lockdown, which limited her opportunities to work before/whilst studying. Some of it is down to her (mistakenly I think) turning down a low-level job she was offered in her second year, thinking she'd get a better one - but she didn't. Some of it is down to her being dyslexic, and struggling a little with executive function.

But I think a lot of it is that she, for whatever reason, is determined to do it all herself and not take advice from anyone. Which is a perfectly fair position. Except it's manifestly not been bearing fruit.

Should add she's not even looking for a graduate job at all, which in some way makes it harder. Partly because of the dyslexia, she's keen not to get a standard graduate office type role. She's absolutely passionate about cooking, and wants to get a job in a restaurant so she can have a career working with food, as a chef or something similar. But I think it means that she's getting turned down by restaurants, because they assume that as a graduate, she's not serious about a low-level hospitality job, and will be off the second she gets a better job.

Or that's my guess. I don't know - as my dd refuses point blank to show me or my dh any of her applications, CVs, or discuss them with us! So I have no idea how bad they are.

Dh and I are finding it agonising watching her get rejected from job after job and not being able to help in any way. Especially as we helped both her older sister and younger brother get jobs, by helping them draft CVs and covering letters, and helping them with interview practice!

So please advise - should I just bite my tongue and back off, as she wants? Or should we continue offering help, for her to access when she's ready? Or encourage her to share her applications with us, so we can help?

I don't really understand why she won't let anyone help her - both dh and I help each other with applications and were happy to accept help ourselves when we were first starting out, from family members with more experience.

If anyone understands where she's coming from, can you explain, and say what you'd like to happen if you were her? It's got to the point now where she just will shut down any remote reference to the topic - meaning that I have no idea what the issue is or what she wants.

Aaagh - so frustrated as I know she'll love it once she starts working and I'm sure will be great at it. Please help.

Is she artistic? Would a further qualification in something more vocational be a sensible option? Like food photography?

She could start a blog or something to show case her skills and passion. Even if it's not paid then it is something to talk about on an application or in an interview.

While I think her plan to use her passion is a good one, I think she either does the footwork and gets walking around restaurants asking in person or explores other routes that might give her a better in like shorter vocational courses.

Initially, it's definitely the CV. Kitchen Porter jobs are usually easy to get and at most places, being short of staff, they are often called on to help with prep and make starters. Demonstrate ability and they'll soon be moved up the chain to actually cooking. Once you've got experience to put on a CV it should be relatively easy to get other jobs. Bear in mind, the wages are terrible, it's high pressure due to time constraints, and the hours are awful. DS does this for a living.

And a big yes to the previous suggestion of agency work. It's the fastest way to a variety of experience and she's not trying herself to low end for too long.

She just needs to get in a kitchen, any kitchen, and take a step up each time.

I suspect there's a confidence issue at play and that she doesn't present well on paper. But if she gets an in and shows herself to be competent she can by pass some of that.

I do think that you need to set a deadline for paying rent to force her into action of some kind.

She needs a foot in the door. How can she get some time in a professional kitchen? No one will hire her as a chef at this point. She could either try to get an entry-level job as a KP, pot-washer, or even go to a smaller place and say look I know I don't have any experience of those jobs but I'm eager and willing to learn could I please do an unpaid shift or two as a trial, and then could you consider offering me paid work if available. That shows initiative, and someone who isn't willing to take a risk hiring without experience may be convinced if they see she's quick to learn and not totally hopeless, has potential. From pot-washing in time you then get given opportunities to start on some food prep and it's progression from there.

Thank you, such a helpful post.

A really good way to approach this - will run this by dh, but agree that a (brief) period of backing off followed by an action plan with timings is probably the best way to go.

This is why I love MN! People who can be clear and have common sense when I can't see the wood for the trees!

@Helicoptera youre welcome. The one thing is add is don’t be too prescriptive.

Say something like ‘you might want to explore eg doing a cooking or catering course, or a course in something else, and you’re willing to consider supporting that. Does she want to explore some ideas and come and talk them over when she’s ready?’

this really is about treating her as an adult. So along the lines would you talk to a colleague?

Wedding cakes are very expensive. Could she advertise to make wedding cakes/cupcakes for people getting married. If she made one cake she could photograph it for an advert. You can buy dummy cakes that you just ice that look like wedding cakes. Much cheaper to do one of those for a photograph. I buy cupcakes from a lady that advertised on Neighbours and they are really lovely with beautiful icing. Much better than mine would be. I bought some amazing iced cupcakes like a flower bouquet for a bride. Also your DD could consider providing a cream tea experience she could deliver. She could bake some scones. You can buy little boxes on Temu with see through lids and little holes to fit a cupcake or scone. A little cup with jam and another with cream in and deliver to a customer. Word soon gets around if they taste nice. A lot of older people might like a scone, a little pot of jam, a cup with cream and a cup cake delivered to them.

You can do online Food Hygiene courses.

So true. She is an adult, and I'm keen she doesn't feel we're treating her as a child.

That said, I don't see anything about having people look over your CVs as childish - dh and I both help each other with applications, etc.

Sigh.

But agree I need to work at making sure what I say comes from a place of respect and love rather than frustration and avoids patronising her!

I worked in the employment and skills sector for a number of years mainly for a charity who helped people find work and remove the barriers that was preventing them from doing so. This included CV writing, interview prep, confidence courses and ultimately scheduling interviews/placements/meetings with potential employers.

Is there anything in your area that does this?

Continue to offer help

Why don't you write her a covering letter and a CV, print it, give it to her with no obligations other than to compare it to hers and use any bits she feels may be help

Covid has been over for 2 years so the fact she hasn’t worked is a big red flag for an employer. I wouldn’t hire someone at 21 with zero work experience so she is going to find it difficult. Although I’m the catering industry what jobs is she going for? I would suggest going for a kitchen porter job and working her way up, it’s not a great job but some aren’t just doing dishes, some pubs will have a kp helping out with starters and deserts so she would gain experience. And no offence but they literally hire anybody in kitchens so maybe she’s not applying for as much as she should be. Print out a cv and hand one into everywhere with a kitchen within your area, there’s really no chance of not getting a job.

Is she shy and/or lacking in confidence? A spot of volunteering would really help. She doesn't have to do anything full-time, just something to get her out of the house and increase her confidence.

Rather than send out CVs, has she been into restaurants to enquire about jobs directly?

Get her to sign up with Host and she will get well paid temp work in all sorts of hospitality settings. DD works for them when home from uni and this week has worked at Lords, Tate Modern, a private breakfast and Harrods. She’s in it for money to travel next year but has been offered loads of permanent positions as she now has lots of experience.
I think your Dd needs experience, any experience.

It's probably been suggested, but could you get your daughter to sign up with an agency then she would get the opportunity to experience different positions. There's usually loads of roles in hospitality available

I really think you need to take a step back. I am very "get things done" and was itching to be hands-on with my DD's career... but at the end of the day, it was her that had to go to the interview, get the job and get up every morning. I had to force myself to step away and not helicopter.

Your DD is not an idiot. She knows about employment agencies and she can go online just like you can, and get advice for job hunting. So, step away from the pressure cooker of advice. Tell her that as of xx date, you will expect her to pay £yyy/month rent. It's up to her how she gets that money. There is literally no excuse for an able-bodied adult not to have a job in the current climate

To be honest I think you’re allowing her to have choices. You all must be in a secure financial position because when I came out of Uni I had to get any job whatsoever to be able to pay my bills. I moved back home but I still had a car and phone to pay for and board to my parents. I worked in a sewing factory for a couple of months, then a couple of different warehouses then I eventually got a job in my chosen career about 2 years after I finished Uni.
not working has never been an option in my parents house. I made job hunting my “full time job” I was out handing out CV’s, at the job centre, at the library all day everyday and applying for 10-20 jobs everyday. Forget further study for now, she needs real life work experience.
she needs to sign up to a few recruitment agencies who will find the work for her, tweak her CV and help her with interview techniques. Absolutely nobody’s getting a job dithering about with a few applications on indeed. Also, worth mentioning that even though the degree was the most recent thing she’s been doing, unless she’s applying for graduate roles then I wouldn’t bother listing this at the top because employers will read the first line and think, art history degree for a Kitchen job? nope and that’s the end of that.
stop giving her options and space to decide, find a job or find somewhere else to live. Also, start charging her rent and making her pay for all her bills, her money will soon run out.

Back to the OP, if she was studying art history, couldn't she have worked at a museum cafe/ done cleaning at a museum/ volunteered at some local art exhibition before or during her degree?

This sort of thing often crops up on MN - kids going right through uni and not working - and I find it really odd. I'm not in the UK, but I would say the majority of uni students here work, during the holidays, and often in evenings during term. Even those with wealthy families, it's just what students do, and always have done, even when there wasn't a cost involved in studying.

I agree with the posters saying she needs to sign up with a temp agency to get some sort of work, even if it is just to tide her over. Or at least sign up for UC (I'm guessing that's a jobseekers' allowance), and get any help offered.

Firstly, you are not in the wrong for trying to encourage your DD to accept help with proofreading CV & CL’s, applications etc. as you say, the hard bit is trying to get her to show you what she is sending out.

if she won’t engage with her Uni careers service would she look at a website maybe? This is the best one for her age: https://www.prospects.ac.uk/careers-advice/cvs-and-cover-letters/how-to-write-a-cv

I am an ex recruiter and currently work in a Uni careers service, qualified careers coach. I guarantee that her CV & applications will be in need of improvement, I’ve seen plenty of shockers over the years and all they need is some advice & guidance on basic improvements & a good proofread.
Hospitality is crying out for staff so there will some absolute basics on her applications that are putting them off.

I feel your pain as I have a slightly younger DD (18) who often refuses help as she’s so stubborn. But I did insist she gets a part time job from 16 to earn her fun money. She’s had 2 jobs in hospitality now and 2 different volunteer work experience placements whilst at college. I know for sure she wouldn’t have got interviews without my input, she isn’t good at spelling & grammar. She interviewed well though and is loved in her current job, often being offered extra shifts, getting loads of tips etc.

Best of luck OP, as many have said, a little tough love might be needed!
💐

She needs to sign on if only for national insurance contributions which may not seem important now to her but certainly will later in life.

Otherwise - I’m sure it’s hard to watch but I was in a similar situation at 21 and everything worked out well for me. 21 is nothing.

Definitely either sort out some sort of qualification in food preparation or agency work but I would really encourage her to get on with it. My dd is also 21 and over the past 3 years has worked every holiday ; she’s picked lettuces, nannied, worked in a covid testing centre and worked in nurseries. Usually she’s started work within 24 hours of contacting an agency.

It meant she now has a good cv with references and lots of interview experience as well as experience of slotting in at various places of work. Also meant she only had a student loan to cover tuition fees.

In every other post you have stated that she ‘hasn’t got around’ to most things. Couldn’t get a job before: queue more
excuses. Have you considered that she doesn’t want to work, lacks direction and confidence and has very little ambition?
She has just completed a degree she has no interest in, costing tens of thousands, and she is now pursuing s career in catering based on enjoying occasional family cooking. It’s a bit of a mess.

No wonder you are worried.

She is applying for kitchen porter jobs? She is vastly over qualified for.

I would insist and pay for proper careers advice, a proper assessment of her options at this point. She sounds stubborn and difficult and you probably need to be much firmer op. It’s too easy lining with you. I would giving deadlines and insisting that as you are paying for her house and keep then there are conditions attached. Starting with accepting an agency job whilst she decides.

My ds has dyslexia. At that age he was completely overwhelmed about planning a career. The struggle through school and university had completely shattered his confidence. He had actually worked from 16 and got on much better actually working than dealing with academics. He eventually found a very basic job just to keep himself going but someone there spotted potential and gave him more opportunities and he took off. But confidence was the big issue with him. The struggle under the surface for him was horrendous.
He has found his own niche area now and is doing well.
Also being able to drive became very important in his new job so could she even be working on that. And signing up to some very practical, hands on course that has an element of work experience would be a good start. People actually seeing her and working with her would hopefully open a door for her.
I have spent a lot of my teaching iife working with children with dyslexia and ..not to categorise them all together...they are notoriously hard on themselves, set themselves very high standards, really struggle with asking and receiving help. Feeling less than from an early age has a big impact on them and until they find an area they are comfortable in they can be very anxious trying to look like they are coping.

I really really really don't want to be the asshole here but I think you're possibly being too soft with her. Why the fuck has she never had any kind of job at 21? She's an adult now, and regardless of why she went to uni or what degree she achieved, she needs to do something, even if it is unrelated. Sorry if that sounds harsh but ....