Should I be helping my unemployed dd (21) get a job? Or does that make me a nightmare helicopter parent??

[Helicoptera]

Advice wanted - my lovely, competent 21-year-old dd who graduated from uni this summer with a 2:1, has still not found a job. In fact, she has never had a paid job, either before uni or during the holidays. Some of this is down to lockdown, which limited her opportunities to work before/whilst studying. Some of it is down to her (mistakenly I think) turning down a low-level job she was offered in her second year, thinking she'd get a better one - but she didn't. Some of it is down to her being dyslexic, and struggling a little with executive function.

But I think a lot of it is that she, for whatever reason, is determined to do it all herself and not take advice from anyone. Which is a perfectly fair position. Except it's manifestly not been bearing fruit.

Should add she's not even looking for a graduate job at all, which in some way makes it harder. Partly because of the dyslexia, she's keen not to get a standard graduate office type role. She's absolutely passionate about cooking, and wants to get a job in a restaurant so she can have a career working with food, as a chef or something similar. But I think it means that she's getting turned down by restaurants, because they assume that as a graduate, she's not serious about a low-level hospitality job, and will be off the second she gets a better job.

Or that's my guess. I don't know - as my dd refuses point blank to show me or my dh any of her applications, CVs, or discuss them with us! So I have no idea how bad they are.

Dh and I are finding it agonising watching her get rejected from job after job and not being able to help in any way. Especially as we helped both her older sister and younger brother get jobs, by helping them draft CVs and covering letters, and helping them with interview practice!

So please advise - should I just bite my tongue and back off, as she wants? Or should we continue offering help, for her to access when she's ready? Or encourage her to share her applications with us, so we can help?

I don't really understand why she won't let anyone help her - both dh and I help each other with applications and were happy to accept help ourselves when we were first starting out, from family members with more experience.

If anyone understands where she's coming from, can you explain, and say what you'd like to happen if you were her? It's got to the point now where she just will shut down any remote reference to the topic - meaning that I have no idea what the issue is or what she wants.

Aaagh - so frustrated as I know she'll love it once she starts working and I'm sure will be great at it. Please help.

Its difficult and frustrating, been there to a very similar degree with my dd, who is a couple of years younger then yours.

I went full helicopter mode to get her a summer job. Not easy at all as at first she didn't want to listen to my advice on applications- ie that she needed to sell herself, add a covering letter etc etc. (Because you know I'm middle aged and know nothing)

I would have been fully prepared to get her to sign on- ie claim universal credit - had she been in your dds situation.

I suspect your dd needs to word her covering to explain her background and that she wants this as her career. Can she do an online food hygiene course ?

@Helicoptera She's back living with us and we're not currently charging her rent, as she's not earning, so that would seem a bit mean!

Id be inclined to say that you will need to start charging rent at some point. At the moment she’s probably thinking she doesn’t need the money so that is one of the reasons she’s refusing help.

I would offer to connect her with (pay for?) some career guidance and someone to help with her CV. The job centre would probably do some of this, but obviously, you might get better support with a paid advisor.

But truly I would not stress about the fact that it is September and she has not yet found a job. Dh, when he was fresh out of uni, and actually looking for a graduate job, didn't get one for a year, despite lots of interviews and a decent CV. Granted, this was 15 years ago, but times are probably even more challenging now.

What she should be doing though is trying to get any job or even a volunteer role. Could she volunteer at a food bank/community kitchen/somewhere that provides meals for people who need them? I suspect the fact she has graduated uni and never had any job is what's holding her back, as that's quite unusual. She needs some experience of some sort on her CV.

Blame Tony Blair for this shit. Not enough vocations are recommended by schools, they just shovel students into Unis and hope for the best regardless of what would be best for anyone.

She needs to cast the net wider, and quickly, as the gap after graduating is only getting bigger which is a red flag for employers.

You need to have a talk. She may be 21 but 3 years of dossing (I’ve been there done that) probably hasn’t made her any more mature than she was at 18…….

As above, get her to claim uC and engage with her work coach and be open to any opportunities which will lead to related experience for the food industry. She can also pay some keep to you then.

Another one to say that maybe she needs a deadline. You can say that a parents role is to help their kids launch and become financially independent. Your dad and I needed help from our parents, your siblings needed our help, but if you feel you are achieving that by yourself without our help then that is fine too - so by x date you can start making contributions towards rent and bills or you can move into your own place and pay rent and bills there. If you find it's harder than you thought to do it without our help, then we are ready and waiting to help you if you ask. Otherwise we'll be expecting x amount on x date.

You do need to back right off though until the deadline and not even mention her job search or anything to do with future careers.

That might give a bit more of a push but give her full agency over what she decides to do (hopefully accept help!!)

I suspect that if she's genuinely applying for low level kitchen jobs like kitchen porter and still getting nowhere at all then her CV is rubbish. I know she won't let you see it but ask if she's tailoring it for each job she applies to. Does she realise that she needs to do this for every application?
If the CV just lists her school grades and art history degree without any mention of food, cooking or kitchen experience (even experience at home is better than nothing) then why would a restaurant believe she has any interest in the job?
Give her a deadline. Get a job, sign on for UC or show us your CV and applications by end of September. Otherwise she's pulling the wool over your eyes and there's another reason for this.

She needs to sign on. She’s 21 with absolutely zero NI credits? She should have 5 years worth, even if only partial years, by now.

And to answer your question, no, pushing her to get help or helping you herself doesn't make you a helicopter parent. It makes you a good parent (regardless of whether she's a child or fully grown independent adult woman).

@mylittleprince "However I still don't understand why she has never had any job. Covid is no excuse really. She would have been 16 well before covid. My dc and their friends have all had jobs through sixth form and hospitality was one of the first areas to open back up. Never mind supermarkets etc being open the whole way through." Agree. Although from a professional perspective, this is often a collection of a few factors; some parents underestimate how much a part time job (paper round, newsagents, gardening etc) is valued in the world of work and hiring, some children and young people lack that industrious drive that is seen in others who say, find jobs on their own out of necessity or drive, and some cultures do not accept lack of industriousness (see research on Indian or west African communities). I used to work in research at a uni and the countless number of parents on open days (STEM) who were proud of the fact that their child didn't know what a paid job was, is mind blowing and sad.

Really good advice given by @sashh

I was in a similar position 10 years ago. DS had graduated but with no work experience, not much interest in roles relating to his degree and not wanting advice.

What worked for us was telling him that he could stay with us for free until Christmas, but after that he’d be expected to pay his share of the household expenses (food and bills) and we expected him to sign on to do that.

Signing on led almost immediately to a temp job which was in no way fulfilling but gave him useful generic work experience. He stayed with that for a long time, moved out and generally got on with life.

Then in his mid twenties he worked out what he really wanted to. By that stage he was highly motivated and prepared to put in whatever legwork it took. He made the shift and it has been a huge success.

@HorribleHisTories15 I see it on here quite a lot people saying oh I want them to concentrate on their studies/extra curricular.

I'm not suggesting they do 16 hours a week but if doing 3 hours in a fish & chip shop on a Friday night hampers your schoolwork somethings wrong.

Having a part time job gives them independence, responsibility, communication skills and so much more.

The hospitality is absolutely crying out for staff, especially KPs and junior chefs, so it's really surprising she's had no response at all!

Do you live rurally? If not, has she been into every restaurant/bar locally with her CV?

Agree signing up with an agency or as a casual for events catering is a good idea. Even if she starts front of house serving canapés etc she'll earn some cash and it's a good way in to a permanent role. In my experience, people who are good quite quickly get offered perm at roles if they want them, and a lot of companies will pay for chef apprenticeships as well.

(If you want to PM me with where in the country you are I can probably share some contacts if helpful)

Thank you <does a happy dance>

OP is she cooking at home? She should be, and taking photos of what she cooks.

And planning menus.

I watch a lot of cooking shows, in particular the various Masterchef programmes, you could give her some of the challenges and have her plan a meal, set the table, cook and clean up afterwards.

Once she has done that a couple of times get her to do the same for some of your friends.

I used to love cooking for people and planning menus. Five course meals were my 'thing'.

@mylittleprince , indeed indeed, you are completely right. A monthly volunteering role at a local church/ library/ soup kitchen (if money is no problem), or even a paid role 1-2 hours a week is foundational. My department used to get significant funding (before Brexit) from a few EU Pharma companies, and one of the observations made by a professor was that the students who needed to be hand - held, back massaged and horse fed, actually lost us good connections and research funding. This is because they hadn't made the connection all their lives the importance of business acumen; your paper round doesn't mean that you plan on delivering newspapers for the rest of your life, you are learning the discipline of waking early, following instructions, time keeping etc, which are essentials in most other fields, and in adulthood. DH is a senior at a large company, and he started in the field being a cleaner on airplanes in his teens early in the mornings. He says that it is one of those critical questions he asks people in soft interviews. Maybe that's too much info, not sure

Back to the OP, if she was studying art history, couldn't she have worked at a museum cafe/ done cleaning at a museum/ volunteered at some local art exhibition before or during her degree?
Sadly, as said earlier, the admissions officer in my former dept said that the absence of any job was usually a reflection on the family/ parents.

Thank you, didn't know that, as it's been over 30 years since I last signed on.

Really helpful to know - might encourage her to engage then. Thank you!

Thanks, a useful reminder. She was really into the idea of volunteering, just never quite got round to it.

A helpful reminder for me to remind her of this.

Thanks, glad it's not only me going through this.

And yes, of course I am a middle-aged woman who knows nothing! <despite having actually had a couple of jobs in hospitality in my younger days, compared to her zero! >

Thanks so much - will PM you.

We're not rural, on the edge of London so really I don't understand how she can be failing to get anywhere with her applications. 😭How badly can they be worded?!

The thing is, she's brilliant at cooking, totally passionate, organised and I know that as soon as she gets her foot in the door, she will fly - she's lovely to work with and I'm sure once an employer sees what she can do, she'll be away.

It's just getting that first step that is proving so unexpectedly difficult.

I think your guidance would have been useful when choosing degree subjects but it's too late now. It's more of a hobby subject than an employable one.

I recommend apprenticeships for starting at the very beginning. Good luck to your DD! She'll find something soon, I'm sure.

Ooh that's harsh! The family here certainly encouraged her! And both her siblings have been solidly employed since they were 16.

Actually the only voluntary job she did (in the sixth form) was volunteering at a museum. So she does have a tiny bit of customer service type experience.

Though whether she stresses that on her applications now I have no idea, as we haven't been allowed to see any of her applications!

Reach is a great volunteering site 😊

She wouldn’t need to have food related qualifications to start working in some restaurant kitchens. A big company like Mitchell and Butler (who own Toby Carvery and others) take inexperienced kitchen staff and offer training and qualifications on the job. This would give her experience of the industry, and income. I would encourage her to make contact with a local branch, or a local branch of a similar brand.

I think you are enabling her.

I think you need to charge her a nominal rent (I charge my dd £45 per week which covers bills and food in the home).

She needs to sign on for UC. She won't get housing element living at home but it will give her access to a work coach. When I left uni I stayed living away as I had a part time job there but the place closed for the summer so I signed on. The job centre had a group for graduates where we could go and get help with our CV's and all sorts (this was back when few had personal computers).

Someone with executive function difficulties does need help and as she won't accept it from you it might be better from an external source. Heck, my husband even gets me to take a look over any CV's he sends out!