Should I be helping my unemployed dd (21) get a job? Or does that make me a nightmare helicopter parent??

[Helicoptera]

Advice wanted - my lovely, competent 21-year-old dd who graduated from uni this summer with a 2:1, has still not found a job. In fact, she has never had a paid job, either before uni or during the holidays. Some of this is down to lockdown, which limited her opportunities to work before/whilst studying. Some of it is down to her (mistakenly I think) turning down a low-level job she was offered in her second year, thinking she'd get a better one - but she didn't. Some of it is down to her being dyslexic, and struggling a little with executive function.

But I think a lot of it is that she, for whatever reason, is determined to do it all herself and not take advice from anyone. Which is a perfectly fair position. Except it's manifestly not been bearing fruit.

Should add she's not even looking for a graduate job at all, which in some way makes it harder. Partly because of the dyslexia, she's keen not to get a standard graduate office type role. She's absolutely passionate about cooking, and wants to get a job in a restaurant so she can have a career working with food, as a chef or something similar. But I think it means that she's getting turned down by restaurants, because they assume that as a graduate, she's not serious about a low-level hospitality job, and will be off the second she gets a better job.

Or that's my guess. I don't know - as my dd refuses point blank to show me or my dh any of her applications, CVs, or discuss them with us! So I have no idea how bad they are.

Dh and I are finding it agonising watching her get rejected from job after job and not being able to help in any way. Especially as we helped both her older sister and younger brother get jobs, by helping them draft CVs and covering letters, and helping them with interview practice!

So please advise - should I just bite my tongue and back off, as she wants? Or should we continue offering help, for her to access when she's ready? Or encourage her to share her applications with us, so we can help?

I don't really understand why she won't let anyone help her - both dh and I help each other with applications and were happy to accept help ourselves when we were first starting out, from family members with more experience.

If anyone understands where she's coming from, can you explain, and say what you'd like to happen if you were her? It's got to the point now where she just will shut down any remote reference to the topic - meaning that I have no idea what the issue is or what she wants.

Aaagh - so frustrated as I know she'll love it once she starts working and I'm sure will be great at it. Please help.

Yes, she does nearly all the cooking at home (to a vastly superior level over what dh or I could do) as she loves cooking so much, and has a cooking Instagram and has just started a blog.

What I don't know is whether this is mentioned on her applications at all!

Thanks. Really helpful to get that outside perspective. It's hard to gauge how far we're being over-helicoptery (her view) or allowing her to get away with not doing enough to get a job (more our view), so thanks for commenting.

I think perhaps some of this is your mindset around the jobs she perhaps could do/wants vs family expectations. Hospitality isn’t all low level you know.
Hospitality as a sector are crying out for staff in most areas. Most would offer training/trial shifts for someone with zero experience. I do understand about her not working through covid but it’s not the same for all people her age. For example, the applicants I get who worked/volunteered through covid I see as having a bit more about them. If she doesn’t need to have money, then what is pushing her to work?
My lovely sister was the same, her daughters went to uni. One worked and one didn’t. The one who didn’t, often was surprised that she’d ‘have to even consider retail’ (my sector). She said they weren’t interested either in someone with no experience, but also I suspect thought she was too good for it and perhaps that did come across in interviews.
Is she getting interviews? If she’s applying and not hearing anything, suggest calling or popping in to chase up an application. Nothing ventured, nothing gained.
Could she volunteer at a food bank/ homeless kitchen or apply even as a dinner lady? No, it may not be what she wants but will give her the structure to get out and off her bum.
Front of house hospitality is great for learning people skills, time management and working as part of a team.
Perhaps give her a timeline of when you will start charging nominal rent at least. Most adults don’t have the luxury of being at home, not needing money, deciding what they want to do. I’m not saying this to be unkind or unsupportive but perhaps by volunteering she may see what life is like for many outside of her bubble. It could be the making of her.

Thanks, good point I hadn't thought of.

❤

I agree with PP; what you really need to do is charge her rent and board. She's telling you she wants to be treated as an autonomous adult, so take her at her word. It's up to her whether she pays it through UC or wages, but she is an adult, not in education, she needs to pay for her living.

Both my children and my dh are neuro diverse with executive function issues (and a tendency towards demand avoidance) so I feel your pain.

In my DDs case I felt it was really down to lack of confidence, rather than laziness. DH and I have certainly always bigged up getting a part time job.

Hope your dd gets a break soon 🤞

(Not sure what executive function difficulties means)

Yes, she does nearly all the cooking at home (to a vastly superior level over what dh or I could do) as she loves cooking so much, and has a cooking Instagram and has just started a blog

Right @Helicoptera . If she enjoys this then she could (if she wanted to!) do digital marketing (particularly SEO and content writing). My husband runs an agency and he said they take on graduates like this quite regularly (with no experience) - so she could look at something along those lines (IF that's her 'thing')

Some agencies may specialise in food / art etc. Which could be a long term goal for her. E.g ours is mainly financial.

Several things are in play here.

1. she should've already been working. It's a massive set back to have 0 work history. Most grads I know worked from 14/16.

2. Unless you know someone in her industry no you shouldn't be helping! And if you did have connections she becomes the result of nepotism. She's a grown adult what help could you possibly provide?

3. It would've been easy for her to get a job in a kitchen as a student and gone from there... instead she has no history and no evidence of caring about working as a chef. She should have been working her way through that. She should start from the bottom (pot washer, waitress) as nobody wants an untested chef.

Frankly the chefs I know have worked elsewhere in food (food journalism, food science) or have been working in restaurants since they were 16.

Thank you

Interesting, thanks! Another possibility...

If she's rejecting low level kitchen jobs btw she's an idiot. Unless she goes to a high end culinary school nobody will hire an untried, untested person who has no relevant qualifications and ZERO work history as a chef.

Really, you should've been pushing her to work in her teens.

We did.

Fair points.

But we are where we are. At 16, she didn't want to be a chef. She didn't know what she wanted to do. At 21, she wants to be a chef... So she needs to start with getting some, any experience...

You need to tell her that she hasn't a chance in hell of being hired as a chef. Maybe a kitchen assistant for now... or at the lowest rate microwave chains.

She needs to upskill, volunteer and show PASSION for the industry. Then she can make her way into it.

Op if your DD isn't working how is she getting spending money?

For me the making a UC claim would be non negotiable. You are involuntarily allowing her to make bad choices.

I was going to suggest this (although it's a bit of a 'nepo baby' story!) - when I was in my late teens, the mother of the guy I was seeing at the time owned a business like this and I learned a lot working for her.

Started out as waiting staff, then moved into the kitchen. I was even able to pick up low-level cheffing jobs in bars and restaurants when I was a student and for a short time after graduating because of the skills I had acquired.

Also sometimes even after uni you have to do more training for a job.

I didn't English literature at uni. I decided I wanted to be a journalist. I became an apprentice at 21 earning £17k... two years and lots of qualifications.

If she's changing track she's not done with education.

My tuppence is that at the very, very least she should be waitressing, a very undervalued skill in this country! If she has zero experience she needs to go: event staff through an agency to get experience, then something like a local cafe, or McDonald’s or KFC (I know people who have ultimately had amazing careers through both those companies before anyone knocks them, then a nice local restaurant then a posh high end restaurant.

I did this as I loathed working in shops and loved food and holy shit was it an education in - seeing how a menu is created, what people like to eat, how to present it to them, how to deal with customers. I learned about wine, about posh breads and how to serve them, about cocktails, about every kind of coffee preparation. I was super interested in loads of the kitchen operations and the chefs gave me so much knowledge and advice. Plus good restaurateurs put so much time and effort into their staff.

Hang on, there’s an amazing article I read the other day from the managers of Franco manca - their wait staff are earning more than a new starter in publishing.

She needs to see that working with food is all about working with people: what do they want to eat, when and where do they want it, how do they want it served, how much are they prepared to pay?

Great post, @Mybasilplantispastitsbest!

(My basil plant is also past its best...)

@Helicoptera

you need to think about this differently. There are lots of good ideas on this thread of things she could do. But in the current dynamic she’ll reject them all.

if I were you I’d:

1. step back. Take a decision not to mention it or allude to it at all for a short ish timetable (1-2 weeks?) same for your DH. Sounds like you’re in a teen dynamic with her where the more you push in to help, the more she’s pushing you out. Change the dynamic. Give her space. Seek a couple of opportunities to do and talk about other things with her so you can remember that you like each other. Then
2. create a structured conversation with her. Plan it. Create a time for it. So it’s not constant and as hoc.
3. BEFORE the discussion consider what you’d like to say. I’d cover

• You understand she wants to be independent, and you realise maybe you’ve been treading on toes. That’s why you’ve backed off in the last week or two.
• it’s a normal adult thing to ask advice and get help in work stuff including finding a job. That you encourage her to seek advice and guidance from a range of people. If she wants to ask you and her dad she can, if not that’s ok, but to try a range of others not just the one friend
• she can’t live at home rent free forever. Especially if she wants you to stay out of her life she will understand this.
• that you are happy to support her rent free at home for x months. After that she will need to pay rent of £Y
• say (if you are) that you are willing to consider supporting her while she does a cooking or chef course. She will need to research this and come to you with options and then you can talk over how it works.
• repeat that you are happy to offer help and support to find training options in cookery, or with job applications if she wants it. Say that maybe she needs the support from you to be different, and if so you’re happy to hear it. Note that the trans ion from adult parent to child to adult parent to adult child isn’t always easy. And you would like to find a middle ground that isn’t you doing it for her (maybe she finds you interfering/ undermining?) and isn’t her refusing everything. So you’d like to hear her feelings and what she’d like to be different. Then LISTEN TO HER and don’t react.
• if she isn’t ready to talk say ‘so we’ll leave you to reflect on this’ let us know when you are ready to talk again

All 3 of my DC (all in their 20's now) tend to compartmentalise what they come to DH and I for.

All of them go to DH for CV type help-think he is less emotional and more clinical-no fuss just the facts.

Maybe your DD is feeling a bit overwhelmed and sinking under the weight of too much interest-take a step back and give her a bit of breathing room and then maybe one of you-whoever is the most competent at CV's try again to see it?

Is she on LinkedIn? DH occasionally looks at their entries and suggests updates/good words to use for searches etc. There is def a practical side to selling yourself that your DD may need some advice for-

And I second the waitressing. I got my first "real job" using an example of leadership I learned whilst waitressing summers out of Uni.

Good Luck!!

How sure are you that she is actually applying for jobs? It sounds to me like she might be worried about getting a job/growing up, and avoiding it, which could be a whole different issue that she might need help with. I can't believe she has not even got an interview for KP type jobs if she is going for those.

Interesting that most posts fall into two categories:

• Advice about what your DD should do next
• Advice to help you back off and treat her as an independent adult.

It seems to me all the advice in the first category is just perpetuating what you’re already doing which you’ve seen hasn’t worked. If what you need is to change your parenting relationship with her then you’ll have to keep all those nuggets to yourself.