Should I be helping my unemployed dd (21) get a job? Or does that make me a nightmare helicopter parent??

[Helicoptera]

Advice wanted - my lovely, competent 21-year-old dd who graduated from uni this summer with a 2:1, has still not found a job. In fact, she has never had a paid job, either before uni or during the holidays. Some of this is down to lockdown, which limited her opportunities to work before/whilst studying. Some of it is down to her (mistakenly I think) turning down a low-level job she was offered in her second year, thinking she'd get a better one - but she didn't. Some of it is down to her being dyslexic, and struggling a little with executive function.

But I think a lot of it is that she, for whatever reason, is determined to do it all herself and not take advice from anyone. Which is a perfectly fair position. Except it's manifestly not been bearing fruit.

Should add she's not even looking for a graduate job at all, which in some way makes it harder. Partly because of the dyslexia, she's keen not to get a standard graduate office type role. She's absolutely passionate about cooking, and wants to get a job in a restaurant so she can have a career working with food, as a chef or something similar. But I think it means that she's getting turned down by restaurants, because they assume that as a graduate, she's not serious about a low-level hospitality job, and will be off the second she gets a better job.

Or that's my guess. I don't know - as my dd refuses point blank to show me or my dh any of her applications, CVs, or discuss them with us! So I have no idea how bad they are.

Dh and I are finding it agonising watching her get rejected from job after job and not being able to help in any way. Especially as we helped both her older sister and younger brother get jobs, by helping them draft CVs and covering letters, and helping them with interview practice!

So please advise - should I just bite my tongue and back off, as she wants? Or should we continue offering help, for her to access when she's ready? Or encourage her to share her applications with us, so we can help?

I don't really understand why she won't let anyone help her - both dh and I help each other with applications and were happy to accept help ourselves when we were first starting out, from family members with more experience.

If anyone understands where she's coming from, can you explain, and say what you'd like to happen if you were her? It's got to the point now where she just will shut down any remote reference to the topic - meaning that I have no idea what the issue is or what she wants.

Aaagh - so frustrated as I know she'll love it once she starts working and I'm sure will be great at it. Please help.

If she studied history and wants to work in food/hospitality I’m not surprised they’re not taking her seriously. They have zero connection to one another.

I was in a similar situation in that I studied Law (realised in second year I didn’t wish to pursue it). Ultimately I’ve ended up in IT. However my approach here was explaining that I saw it as beneficial to continue as I had still put over a year into my studies and I felt that quitting because I didn’t want to do something wasn’t an option and it showed I had determination to complete something even it wasn’t my passion (this was always received well because we all have to do stuff at work we don’t want to do). I would always highlight that although not relevant it showed my aptitude for learning and I still took many transferable skills across.

Maybe in her cover letter she could call the above out in a similar way and then mention her passions for cooking/hospitality and her goals.

If she is serious about this maybe she should also go to college to learn cookery/hospitality too, so when she applies for a job she can show them she is proactive in learning the required trade.

Sit down and talk to her because it isn’t helicopter parenting. She is trying to navigate something she hasn’t done before and part of being an adult is knowing when to ask and take help from those with more experience.

I’ve also heard the Ballymalloe course is really good and I know it catapulated a friend into the food world and she’s now very, very successfully.

She needs to get experience.

Not read the whole thread (sorry), but you have mentioned dyslexia a number of times. Could you suggest she looks at some of the dyslexia charities who maybe able to offer support, especially around building confidence and self esteem?

the other question is are you sure she is applying for all these jobs?

Can you still do this even with a British passport? My DD would love it, but I thought they preferred Irish / EU passport holders due to no paperwork or permits to secure.

We have several food-related charities local to us, would volunteering at something like that in your area be useful to her for now?

Your daughter isn’t working because she doesn’t have to, end of. She’s managed to get to 21 without a job, so why start now?!

We have a restaurant and I can tell you hands down we’re in the middle of a nationwide staffing crisis so no one is turning her down for a job! They won’t be offering a graduate with no experience in the workforce a management position but everything else can be taught. With the exception of a work ethic. Hours in ‘food’ are unsocial and hard. Many of the greatest talents in our industry start working as teenagers and are grafters. First in, last out. Passionate bordering on obsessed. To get on, you have to get on.

Dyslexia isn’t really an excuse for not working but if you’re acknowledging that you have it then you need to let people help you with things that may be considered your ‘weakness’. We all have them and if writing and typing a CV is yours then you need to accept help as it’s essentially your shop window. She won’t accept it if she’s essentially not arsed about getting a job though!

@sjj28358 my DD's friend is doing it this year in Canada although I don't know how it was arranged.

Not sure if funding a course is a problem but if you live in England and DD can evidence that she is either unemployed/in receipt of benefits or a low wage she can get a full level 3 qualification (e.g L3 Food and Catering) fully funded at a local college. They will probably have a placement option which could leave to part time or full time employment.

Some of the local ones start September so might be worth looking quickly
https://nationalcareers.service.gov.uk/find-a-course/page?searchTerm=food&distance=10%20miles&town=London&orderByValue=Distance&startDate=Anytime&courseType=&courseHours=&courseStudyTime=&filterA=true&page=1&D=1&coordinates=&campaignCode=LEVEL3_FREE&qualificationLevels=

Would she claim universal credit as she has no money coming in ? A work coach may be able to help with getting her onto CV workshop or sending her on courses which would improve her chances of finding work. She would be expected to look for 35 hours of work though. Also as others have suggested some voluntary work would at least be something to put on a CV. my 20 year old ds and 18 year old dd have both been doing voluntary work this summer as have been unable to find paid work.

You sound very supportive which is lovely.

It sounds as though there is more going on here than just a strong independent streak and an assumed mis-aligned CV. I don’t think it is the lack of work experience either - that could be talked through in a covering letter or face to face.

Is there a possibility that your support might actually come across as, or being received as critique, and that is why your daughter doesn’t want to show her your CV and applications?

I have not read the entire thread, just your responses and the odd comments. I know you say that she is dyslexic and that Uni was harder than school which stuck out and I wondered if it were an ADHD/ASD trait (transition struggles can also be a dyslexic trait..) and she could well be experiencing RSD in her interactions over these topics with you both over this. It could also be about control over her life and the transition out of education to a very much less structured and uncontrolled life? Also, with the job that she has in mind, is she being very specific and controlled with who and where she applies and for what specific roles she sees herself doing? Could cooking be a hyper focus for her at the moment? (She sounds very talented with it, that’s not what I’m suggesting)

Someone suggested ski chalet work which sounds great. There are also lodged in a Scotland (and beyond) needing cooks and assistants etc - I’ve popped a link to a place below from a quick google search.

https://www.cindywebstercooks.co.uk/jobs/

Also, Bake Off applications will be coming opening in a month or two!

I can imagine my dd3 being like this! She's just started y11 and has no idea what she wants to study at uni but definitely wants to go (predicted all 9s at gcse). Seems to want to do an odd assortment of subjects at A level/ IB. Her 3 older siblings knew what they wanted to study at her age and all did/ are doing vocational degrees.
She does know there won't be a free ride at home as we're on uc!

My elder 2dd are one school year apart - both did well at school, both went to Cambridge etc but dd1 probably worked for less than 5 paid days in total before she finished her degree. Dd2 worked since she was in year 12/13, worked most of her summer holidays at university and had a job lined up to start a month after she graduated! Dd1's excuse was she was doing medicine and she'd be working soon enough.
Ds had to be encouraged very strongly to get a job after his A levels as we couldn't afford to support him (10 years younger than dd2). In fact I had to insist he sent an email about a warehouse job near us. He is grateful now as he loved the job and it gave him a lot of confidence ( he is ND). Two years later he still works there during his university vacations and has also picked up small jobs at uni.

Agree @Manthide a lot of it hard when you lack confidence or are ND. Sometimes we as parents have to do the strong encouragement thing.

I've had to strongly encourage both my DC!

Being at uni and being dyslexic is so hard, i did a similar degree and it took me twice as long to complete my work. And it was frequently a lower standard of work.
I managed to work for first 2 years of uni but it was too much after that.
I’ve also worked in hospitality, it can be harsh industry lots of chefs work long hours for low pay, so make sure she’s aware of what’s she’s getting into.
i think the suggestion of apprenticeship is good or college. i also think volunteering is a good idea for her cv and mental health. Both these environments will give her the opportunity to learn but with less pressure.
The hospitality industry can be a lot of unpaid trial shifts and being dropped off rotas without ever being given the opportunity to learn. It’s also really bad for not training people.
Depending where you live the hospitality industry can be very seasonal she might have better luck finding a job in the spring. A seasonal job could also help her break into the industry as they’ll be less concerned about what her long term plans are.

Try pointing her to a job agency, worked for our graduate ds. Good luck 🤞

Without wanting to sound harsh you are making excuse after excuse for her and enabling her not to work.

Couldn't work because of covid - nonsense. There were jobs there in retail and hospitality. My DS worked as a delivery person on his bike. His GF in a food shop.

Dyslexia - therefore difficult. Again nonsense 2 of mine are dyslexic and have managed to hold down part time jobs since 16, through y11 to 13 and whilst at uni and during summer jobs.

There are agency hospitality companies that you sign up to and get work at events such as sporting events and conferences etc in kitchens, bar work and waiter roles. She could easily sign up to one of those were she minded to, just for some experience on her CV. She could save this money to fund a catering course. I am afraid she doesn't want to work as she has never had to and you have to some extent enabled this and continue to do so.

'She went to uni because she didn't know what else to do and comes from a family where we tend to do academic degrees and get graduate jobs - but then found the degree harder than anticipated as the dyslexia impacted her studies more at uni than school.'
I wonder if this statement might be a clue, OP. She may feel embarrassed to accept help since she struggled with something the rest of the family has managed. She might feel she has something to prove. Offers of help might feel like heaping coals of fire on her shame of being the one who didn't do so well.
It sounds like your offers of help come from a great place. All you can do is let her know the offer is there, no judgement attached. I hope it works out for her.

https://www.google.com/search?q=hotel+apprenticeships+london&rlz=1C1GCEA_enGB894GB894&oq=hotel+appre&aqs=chrome.1.0i512l3j69i57j0i512l6.10631j0j15&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8&ibp=htl;jobs&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjLo-GilK-BAxUOQEEAHXx7C2kQkd0GegQIEBAB#fpstate=tldetail&htivrt=jobs&htiq=hotel+apprenticeships+london&htidocid=ozKdDWTNb9eKNfTOAAAAAA%3D%3D

She would be perfect for a hotel apprenticeships - look for a 5star one if possible as they have fantastic training schemes - great fun, working with lots of young people, hard work but she would get to see all aspects of hospitality

She graduated 6-8 weeks ago? Saying "still" hasn't found a job is a bit harsh?

There's an organisation for women under 30 to help with careers. I think it's called the womens organisation (I will check) maybe she'd accept outside help as that's still her being independent?

Can she just not go for a walk, the cafe in the park near us has a sign up for a barista, apply within. The two pubs I can walk to have signs up for bar staff and waiting staff, ask for the manager, our local high street has a sign in every other cafe window asking for staff, apply within.

You need to get a lot tougher on her, and she at least needs to sign on for the National insurance credits

Even with help it's tough, it takes time. She will get there eventually it's just so demoralising getting constant rejections. I don't think it's unusual to take along time to find the right role. Among the friends of my DC many took a year or two to land that "proper" job.
I would want to help, I helped my DC with proof reading applications as well as moral support for rejections. Neither of my DC found uni careers much help.

DS2 graduated and came home before he applied for anything.
He started a two pronged job search. First for anything to just tide him over (He diidn't need the money - we supported him but it was important to him to find some work). He applied to shops, supermarkets etc and got a job at the local Tescos while applying for graduate roles (the Tesco job search was just as difficult). He must have applied for everything going, grad schemes as well as jobs aimed at grad level. After 8 months he got a grad scheme he really liked.

DS found his customer facing roles in various jobs came in handy for material for job interviews. The "how did you deal with x scenario" kind of question.

Mybe if she widened her search to include anything local, part time? Once you have a job it helps you to get another. A friend is not going to have the maturity or skills to properly critique her applications.
Another tip is to not mention her degree for low skill jobs as it may make employers think she is not serious about their job.

Definitely help to get the ball rolling

I think you really need to urge her to make an appointment with the careers advisor at her university. You can frame it as just going in for an open discussion on what options there are for further study, training, or job applications.

The careers advisor at my uni was the single greatest thing I got out of my time at uni, and I hold him entirely responsible for me getting my dream job - I had secured my job before I’d even finished my degree. If it weren’t for him I am certain I would not be in the position I am now. His advice was invaluable.

They know so much and will be able to advise on pathways and opportunities that your daughter will unlikely be able to find herself. As a pp said, if she is the adventurous type and may like working abroad, her careers advisor will be able to help find the opportunities and assist in writing a flawless application.

You know her best, try and find a way to frame it that makes her see that speaking to them would be a great opportunity for her, with no pressure on getting a job out of them. She doesn’t want to wait so long she is unable to utilise their services.

Coming from your daughters angle:

It doesn’t sound like you or your husband have any particularly relevant knowledge to bring to the world of entry level hospitality jobs. Which makes it tough to see a way that you’d bring anything other than further critique. Which is probably not what she’s feeling she needs. Her uni won’t be much help if she’s not looking for graduate type jobs.

one option might be pointing out stuff that may be helpful. Eg. Any vaguely suitable jobs you see where the application method includes ‘or pop in and see us’.
Have a chat with anywhere you go regularly and ask general advice on getting jobs in that area. Then can offer introductions.

Odds on if she’s a dyslexic graduate with no work experience that she’s going to need to get started via a route where either the employer is absolutely desperate, or it doesn’t start with CV and cover letter. There’s not a lot she can do on paper to get round looking like an awful choice. She’s got a much better prospect of getting past that in person.

She refused to claim benefits!

Stop enabling her to be lazy.

Tell her what her rent is going to be and either sign on, get a job or move out.

She doesn’t want a job, using dyslexia is an excuse. We employ a youngster with dyslexia, we just give a bit more input to them and they are doing great.

Go on indeed, there are loads of jobs, she can’t afford to be picky, and if she thinks she’s going to waltz in and be head chef with no experience or qualifications (they will ignore the degree) then you need to give her realism talk about the real world.

Your daughter is being lazy and before you know will be a 26 year old never having had a job, do you want her still at home then?