Help! Can I really manage full time work and a happy family life with older kids?

[Labbingtons]

Circumstances have necessitated a return to full time work (term time only) for me. Kids will both be at secondary from September and there’s a chance to take on a project I don’t want to miss. I’m self employed, but the project is a risk so will take it on alongside my 3 day a week consultancy role. I’ll do client visits 3 mornings a week and will work at home or in my (nearby) office the rest of the time.

I’ve always worked but never full time since having children. They will both get to school independently on buses (home at 4.45.) DH has also recently taken on a big promotion and is super busy but very involved, great with helping with homework etc. DS has additional needs and will need lots of support with homework/ organisation. DD is pretty independent but loves a chat at the end of the day. Both have weekend and after school activities (Scouts etc.) to be taken to.

Please help with any tips and thoughts about keeping a happy family life with two full time working parents. And how to avoid feeling run into the ground with commitments. If you work full time, how do you find time for your own interests, your relationships and social life?

The new role means we at least have money to throw at the problem and I’ve already asked our cleaner to do an extra day a week to accommodate laundry, found a gardener/odd job person and arranged a 3-day a week dogwalker. Anything else to make life easier?

I think the flexibility of what you're taking on means it will be fine, as in the fact you'll be at home some of the days. It helps they already use the bus and that it's term time. Best of luck with it op

No it's not, all of us full time working parents are failing our kids on a daily basis who are miserable, sullen and underachieving

My main issue is when the kids want to chat in the evening and I'm half asleep.
I'll second this, when you are absolutely wrecked after a tough day it's difficult switching back on and doing the 'what's up in your life?' kind of thing. We make sure to have a board game night once a week so it isn't just everyone off to devices then bed/rat race type thing!

Sorry that was probably unnecessary and snarky but fuck me it really gets me down seeing so many comments on Mumsnet "oh how can I possibly have happy well adjusted kids and work full time"

Or SAH parents saying smugly " well I wanted to raise my own kids"

I assure you DH and I are raising ours even though we need childcare three days a week and we have amazing
Times in the afternoon/evenings and holidays!

In practical answers:

Both compressed hours to 4 days a week, appreciate this isn't an option for everyone.

NEVER let the house get out of control. You do 20 minutes quick tidy every night when they're in bed before sitting down even if you really can't be arsed

Bath cook and slow cooker

They learn to 'help' with chores so you can do a few things. I have a box of old cutlery for the toddler to sort while I do the kitchen.

Share a calendar for social events and ensure you both get an evening off fairly often

It looks like you haven’t mentioned food.

Meal boxes like Hello Fresh have been mentioned but I find they don’t reduce the actual cooking work significantly (though I accept they are good for removing shopping / planning load).

I like https://www.cookfood.net/ - it’s reasonably healthy as it comes frozen rather than being loaded with preservatives. I have a freezer full for days when I don’t feel like cooking or don’t have time. Someone would have to accept the delivery and put it in the freezer but your cleaner / kids may be able to do that.

No actual edit, just checking new edit function.

I understand where you're coming from as my mum had a breakdown too at a similar point in my childhood. It was terrifying so I can completely see why you're worried.

A breakdown isn't caused overnight (even if it seems like it came out of the blue) and it's unlikely your mum's had one single cause. Similarly you couldn't cause or cure any breakdown of your own with a single decision so don't overthink this one.

It sounds like you're taking on this project because you want to rather than need to. That's a huge plus for you, and as others have (sarcastically) pointed out, you're in a good position domestically. All you probably need to do is check in regularly with your own and DH's mental health and really assess how things are going. Have in your mind how you'd scale things back at work if feeling the strain, so you already have plans in place should you find things aren't feeling right.

Also use the additional money for treats and things that benefit the family as well as/instead of domestic services. Make sure the kids know they are getting X dinner out / day out / mini break / decorated bedroom because mum and dad have worked AND been fortunate (since many work hard for v little reward). Communicate to yourself and your kids always that you run your life this way because it's your choice and for now you are feeling the benefits of it. If that changes you'll set things up differently and make the necessary trade offs.

A cleaner twice a week, a dog walker three times a week AND a gardener? Working from home some of the time? Secondary aged kids with school transport provided?? Ridiculous non problem.

The beauty of term time only is you don't need to worry about the big jobs during the normal week. Deep cleaning appliances, changing wardrobes between seasons, decluttering etc, leave all this type of thing until the next mid term so all you have to do is stay on top of things.

Meal times and planning will be your biggest challenge. I do hello fresh, I'm not FT so have time to prep but find the planning a bit overwhelming and this has made my life easier. The instructions are so easy anyone can follow so maybe other family members can get started on it.

Your kids will be the biggest issue, that's the worst about being home a lot, they become lazy and it will be you fighting and nagging. I'd say have a family meeting beforehand to work through everyone's duties so you don't come home to a battle each day.

Something you could consider is having someone do some food for your freezer. A local caterer?

I would also do a regular eating out night and a regular takeaway night.

Also IME the worst time in any aspect of life is when you are waiting for the change to kick in. Once you are absorbed in work, the kids are back at school and you are all in a routine everything will be much more manageable.

Lots of jealous people on here!

op weed those out and focus on the genuine responses. Sounds like you have a lot of efficient help, I think it may be a case of seeing what else you need once you begin.

the only thing I will add is to get the kids involved and give them chores

Jesus OP read the room.
You've a cleaner, dog walker, odd jobs man.... I'm sure you'll manage just fine

How do you think other parents who work full time (or much, much more than full-time) manage a household and kids without having money to throw at the situation to make life easier?

Mate, it's the usual tricks around time management.

I'd go for making the mornings as easy possible. Pe kits grabbable, new timetables pinned to the fridge or whatever, coats and bags easy to grab (which means the kids need to put their shit in the right place as soon as they get home, so they are where they're meant to be for the morning.)

Then I'd look at the afternoon when the kids get home. Make sure there are the kind of snacks ready to go for the them as soon as they get in. Get them into good habits and a routine for after school, which will help with the morning stuff.

Evening meals, planned. Make sure everyone chips in with the clear up. One of my ds's jobs is clearing the dining room completely after dinner. The other has to dry up. Dh washes up and cleans down the kitchen after dinner while I make sure the washing is sorted and the living room is tidy.

Everyone is responsible for their own bedrooms being tidy and easy to manage.

Communicate late finishes, extra appointments, so say, dh knows that on wedsnesday he has to cook and plate your food up because you're working late.

Routines, planning, time management. It's easy. What's not easy is doing it everyday when you just want a giant glass of wine and posh crisps instead of dinner!

Hahaha you aren't going to get the support you want here... you've just described most peoples life without all the extra support... most people on here will be struggling with bills so this comes across as a Hunble brag.

Nice answer: get organised. Plan ahead and accept an adult life isn't doing it all.

Thanks everyone who has provided helpful ideas. I feel much more positive about the change.

And thanks to those who noticed the difference between coping and managing, which I’m sure most people do, and thriving in a new situation, which I think can be much harder.

Our family certainly didn’t thrive when my mum did this. And she’s by no means an incompetent non-coper.

I am going to get a grip on meal planning. And buy a chest freezer to have a few batch cooked meals ready.

There’s a farm shop selling freshly cooked dishes and Cook shop in our town, which we can use now and again.

DH will have two early finish days (at six and will get supper/ oversee homework)

DH is in charge of all laundry that our cleaner doesn’t manage. I hate cleaning.

Kids need designated chores. For DS this might need to be very simple stuff, and might take more supervision at first.

Tomorrow, I’m helping the kids to have a good sort out in their rooms, so things feel organised going into the new term.

I’ve sorted out about eight basic autumn/ winter work outfits to wear in dull but no thought required rotation.

Next week I’ve booked in things like haircuts, vaccinations for dogs, car servicing etc.

And a nicer one- I’m joining our local community choir. Lots of friends and neighbours are members and it is important to me I have something for myself.

Thanks again for ideas, it’s been really helpful.

I see absolutely no reason why you wouldn't be able to manage - your kids are secondary age, you have masses of help and money to fund more if needed and you work term-time only! I've been working full-time all year round with no cleaner/laundry service/other help since DS was 2 - he's now 10. Honestly think you are deluded if you think your situation will be at all difficult!

I'm a lone parent been working full time since DS was 11 and never been able to afford domestic help. I don't struggle. You'll be fine. It's only a big deal if you make it. People stress unnecessarily sometimes.

Meal planning and batch cooking will help, you sound like a pretty organised person anyway which I'm sure will help you with the transition to FT work. Aim to do as much as you can during the week so you can actually enjoy the weekends as a family rather than them being used for jobs you could have done during the weekday evenings.

This is coming from a background of privilege. Most people have to do all this with no outside help with lack of sleep and young kids. Have a think about what you need done and then create a plan and what resources you need to bring in.
I have worked full time since my kids were 8 months old. Has it been tough? Is it has but you manage if you have to.
We have a cleaner that does 3 hours a week, I don’t iron, I do all my grocery shopping online, my cleaner helps with a bit of the laundry but I always do a load or two everyday in my lunch break or at night when kids in bed etc… if you are organised you can fit everything in. Now as to time off and relaxation that only happens when I use my annual leave. Kids go to bed at 9pm so can’t have any evening hobbies.

Some people are used to an easier life so when you add in more to the mix they struggle. It’s what you are used to. To me her situation sounds like a vacation to me as I work all year round and do most of the chores even if we do have a cleaner now since we have kids. My kids are not independent in the slightest either so when they are home on constantly hoovering around them as they leave a trail of mess. I don’t get to sit down and relax until both go to bed at 9pm.

To all the posters saying its not difficult, I've worked full time since dc were x age, you're privileged, I didn't get the sense the op didn't think she'd cope, or would find the mechanics of it difficult, more that she wanted to know how to do all of that and be happy. And I think that's a great question, because the reality is, it's often a grind or a slog.

Add into the mix the fact that her own mum did this at a similar age to her dcs, and was the opposite of happy, I can completely understand the question!

Thank you. That was exactly my question. Not how to cope, but how to thrive.

My parents both worked FT all my childhood.
They had a cleaner, true.
Similar for everyone in our social circle, 2 parents working FT, mostly lawyers, doctors, teachers.
You just make it work because you have to.

This.

@Labbingtons is this for real? Millions of people - myself included - are lone parents to young children and work full time with next to no support from another person or single parents having to do it all. There is also no money to throw at support services.

i think you know many many people would love to have these sorts of problems

A lot of people on Mumsnet aren't thriving at all on this regime working f/t, if their posts are anything to go by. The only time I've started 'thriving' on this type of busyness has been when I've thrown money at the problem, and lowered my household standards, when I've had them high and worked a lot, it's been stressful. Also, if one of the children suddenly has issues, that can put a strain on even the most well-designed system. Nothing shocking about putting lots in place, I don't mow my own lawn and I also have a cleaner, I'm a lone parent supporting a whole household and I have to do what it takes to get through, without those things I would just have a dirty house and a rubbish garden, I'm not a miracle worker and can't work more hours than are available in the week and be there for my children.

It's also worth saying people vary in terms of energy- I was better prior to the menopause and a bad bout of Covid, now I'm functioning on about 80% if that, and it means the household is just not that organized or tidy, I just focus on work and the emotional needs of teens (which are high). Everything else kind of just falls around me...