Lucy Letby guilty - part 2

[twoandcooplease]

Thread 1 Lucy Letby guilty www.mumsnet.com/Talk/_chat/4875009-lucy-letby-guilty

Just in case anyone wants to keep the conversation going

Also I can’t find the comment but I think armchair diagnosing her with autism and a hoarding disorder based on her having lots of paper and being a nerd with a ‘childish room’ (that looks pretty standard to me tbh, not everyone has a minimalist bedroom with no fairy lights…) is offensive to people with autism or a hoarding disorder as it implies autism or a hoarding disorder is a reason to kill people.

I agree @Whatsthepoint1234 and it is offensive to those people.

The bedroom looks standard to me too, aside from the couple of teddy bears it looks quite standard and bland, and a bit disorganised and untidy.

Her plain and "vanilla" character, along with her picture perfect image in society, allowed her to get away with it so long. She was seen as boring and uninteresting, nothing stood out about her which absolutely leads you to think she's "normal" being a young polite white woman meant she was never seen as the threat. You know if it was an immigrant or non native nurse the media would absolutely be ripping her apart instead of just saying she was meek. She is a cold, calculated, manipulating murderer, constantly using the photo of her holding some poor child.

I agree with a lot of this post.

Definitely as an autistic adult (with a slight hoarding problem) with an autistic child I find it offensive that somehow autism could lead to being a baby killer! I could understand if they were armchair diagnosing her as a psychopath (which can lead to serial killing) because she tortured animals as a child (I’m making this up as an example AFAIK she didn’t) but autism as she wasn’t popular and had fairy lights and teddies like a lot of NT adult women that I know. Really? Imagine if autism was so easy to diagnose because the two signs were having teddies as an adult and not being popular at school.

I do think that no one starts out evil.

When I was younger, I used to be extremely kind and compassionate.

A series of things then happened to me. One thing was that my dad hadn't been around, and I went to see my dad as an adult and he told me that he didn't want to see me again. Also his brother (my uncle) was extremely cruel and cold to me and told me that I wasnt part of their family.

I fell like their behaviour to me has now resulted in me extremely being cold and hard.

I am cold and hard now.

not only am I not kind to people anymore, I can't seem to love people or form deep connections with anyone anymore.

I feel like I am really cold to people.

I'm aware I'm like this but I can't seem to change myself.

I wasn't loved so I can't seem to love others.

I think "my own dad didn't want me" and my heart is so hurt, I can't seem to be kind to anyone else.

I genuinely seem to have lost the ability to be kind and caring to others. It really makes me sad. And it's made me very lonely too. I want to change but I can't seem to.

It's just a reflection on this case. I wasn't cold and hard until someone was cold and hard to me.

It's a minor reflection on how kind people came become very cruel.

L letby is a very extreme case. I would never ever go out and harm anyone. She is an extreme case. But I wonder did anyone abuse her. Something maybe happened to make her have no empathy. Still there is no excuse whatsoever for what she did. .most people who were abused as kids don't go on to physically harm anyone

She isn’t a natural blonde if that makes any difference!!

come on - you can’t seriously doubt her murderous intent because of her colouring?!? Women do kill after all.

Imagine if autism was so easy to diagnose because the two signs were having teddies as an adult and not being popular at school

Indeed, but on Mumsnet I absolutely guarantee it'll always be dragged in - though at least this time it wasn't in the very first post

She is a natural blonde. Look at photos of her as a child. She was blonde .

How did we get on to hair colour! It looks light brown in the newspapers to me.

I'm not sure why anyone who followed the trial closely would think innocent. Yes evidence is mainly circumstantial but there's so much of it. At one point I thought she was just highly incompetent, the overfeeding, letting air in etc but it's her own words, texts and testimony that sealed it. She had a handover sheet in a special box but claimed it didn't mean anything. Contradicting parents, drip feeding possible causes of death that were simply not true etc I wish she was innocent because the reality is horrific. I think she's just a highly immature and spiteful woman who hurt those babies out of frustration. She didn't like criticism or being put with the babies that weren't the sickest. She liked attention and unfortunately became hooked on the drama of the collapses. Just my opinion of course. I will say though that the press aren't getting everything quite right. Yes deaths went down after she left but that's possibly because the unit was downgraded and didn't take the sicker babies anymore.

She's not. I read that her hair has now gone back to its natural brown.

If it matters!

Why should hair colour matter? We aren't 1940's Germany. I do think the media seem more bamboozled that a woman did it instead of a man.

I think she’s absolutely guilty. Also as a Chester resident I’m getting increasingly frustrated by paediatricians being flaunted on air saying how they tried to flag concerns. The hospital is badly mismanaged, but also the clinical care is terrible, ranked 116 out of 120 hospitals in the UK. https://www.cheshire-live.co.uk/news/chester-cheshire-news/countess-chester-hospital-trust-ranked-24593798.amp

Jeez - does it really matter what her hair colour is??

is that what you took from my post?

It doesn’t matter!

You know if it was an immigrant or non native nurse the media would absolutely be ripping her apart instead of just saying she was meek.

Have to agree - the media coverage over the past two days seems to be a bit subdued, considering she is not just a serial killer but the most prolific child killer in modern times.

You are the one who first mentioned her hair colour!

I think hair colour was mentioned to point out how our society is still very racist.

Because she is white, blonde haired, blue eyed : everyone is shocked

Because if you are white, blonde, hair blue eyed - you must be good. Ie "the superior race can't possibly commit crimes".

I also see that an Indian doctor reported her several times to white managers, and he wasn't listened to.

One reason could be because he is Indian, and Lucy is white, and the managers are white. So his voice is seen in that workplace as having lesser value than the white people. It is also seen in that workplace very impossible that a white normal woman would commit murder.

There is a lot of racism in the UK

Sarcasm….

it was in reply to the poster who said they didn’t think LL did it because she was white, young, blonde….

the most ridiculous statement

The hospital is badly mismanaged, but also the clinical care is terrible, ranked 116 out of 120 hospitals in the UK

Dear god
Though possibly it informs why the management were even keener to avoid any further negative headlines ...

And if LL were autistic she'd most likely have a very strong sense of right and wrong, and as an autistic woman in particular likely to be very compassionate. It's the last thing I'd armchair diagnose tbh

100% agree with this, no way would an immigrant or non-white nurse have got away with so long and the media would have gone nuts over her race.

This is the most ridiculous thing I have read about the case thus far!!!

People are not shocked because of what she looks like!!! They're shocked because of what she has done. They're shocked because she simply does not fit the profile (in many many ways) of a psychopathic serial killer. They're shocked because of her age and her upbringing. They're shocked because there is no evidence of a broken home/tragic home life, they're shocked because she didn't show any other signs to colleagues or family of being the murderer that she is and they're shocked because she was polite and "nice" - see comment one of the consultants made when he first discovered it was LL.

Any very very brief comment about hair colour in the media coverage I'd imagine is more to do with the fact she has "gone back to natural colour" due to lack of access to a hairdresser/stress she's been under/looks like her real self now rather than a more glamorous version of herself/focus has been moreso on trial rather than looks/looks grey/washed out now as trial has taken its toll etc.

The comments you've made about the ethnicity of the consultant who was the initial whistleblower are completely fabricated and have no grounds. (that the managers were white, that that's why they were siding with LL) He wasn't listened to because the hospital was trying to "save its reputation" which is horrendous.

Race has absolutely nothing to do with this.

Tony Chambers, the chief executive who presided over the hospital where Lucy Letby murdered seven babies and attempted to murder six others, left with a pension worth £1 million and went on to hold a string of other lucrative NHS positions.
The married 57-year-old spent the start of this year as interim chief executive at The Queen Victoria Hospital NHS Foundation Trust in West Sussex, earning the equivalent of a £200,000 salary, before he stepped down in June.
It has helped to fund an enviable lifestyle – with Mr Chambers claiming in an interview that he loves to travel and is a “wannabe ski god”.
When not overseas, he has often spent weekends just outside Bolton, where the NHS executive and his wife, a university professor, own a converted coaching house backing onto acres of moorland.
The pair have two grown-up sons, one of whom is a professional snowboarder.
Mr Chambers was the chief executive of the Countess of Chester Hospital during the period that Letby murdered seven babies and attempted to murder six others and will now face questions about whether more could have been done to stop the nurse.
Evidence in court also revealed a sometimes chaotic environment on the neonatal ward, where a doctor was seen googling how to carry out a procedure and in one instance sewage came out of the sinks.

The Countess of Chester Hospital
The jury heard that one child received “suboptimal care” from medics while in respiratory distress before going on to suffer two unexplained cardiac arrests.
Errors included doctors leaving a needle inside the infant’s chest for too long while placing a chest drain, which was described as “hazardous”.Advertisement
On Friday, Mr Chambers said in a statement that he was “truly sorry for what all the families have gone through”.
“The crimes that have been committed are appalling and I am deeply saddened by what has come to light. The trial, and the lengthy police investigation, have shown the complex nature of the issues raised. I will co-operate fully and openly with any post-trial inquiry.”
Mr Chambers told the Telegraph that when a “thematic review” was carried out in February to March 2016, “no common themes were identified in all of the cases, however, some themes occurred in more than one baby”.
Following this he said a meeting took place in May 2016 where staff “highlighted that there was one member of the nursing staff who had been present at more cases than any other member of staff”.
This individual is understood to be Letby. However, he said that at this stage “[t]here was no evidence other than coincidence and what was described as ‘gut feeling’”.