Page 39 | Lucy Letby guilty - part 2

twoandcooplease · 2023-08-19T00:47:10+00:00

Thread 1 Lucy Letby guilty http://www.mumsnet.com/Talk/_chat/4875009-lucy-letby-guilty Just in case anyone wants to keep the conversation going

novalia89 · 20/08/2023 22:21

Highdaysandholidays1 · 19/08/2023 14:11

I think I am right in saying that she had in fact already killed three poor babies by the time the registrar she was friendly with (affair possibly) came into view. So, it might have played into the whole situation but I don't think he was the initial motivator. I did not follow this very carefully in the trial though.

A lot of evidence is in the public domain and did make the papers but it was a very detailed and in most ways boring trial due to the type of evidence and so it wasn't front page news. I saw the note which makes her seem the most guilty (which says I did it, although what 'it' is is not specified) during the trial but lots of people seem surprised by the 'new' evidence. I don't remember the handover sheet stuff though, but I wasn't following the trial that closely, just every few weeks I'd notice it.

If she started when she was on placement then yes, he would be an unlikely motive.

AvocadotoastORahouse · 20/08/2023 22:22

Orangebadger · 20/08/2023 21:09

@Rinoachicken I agree. Her defence was weak because there was no defence. If there was it would have been used.

Yup.

Although the conspiracy theorists won't want to see that.

Eenymeanymineymo · 20/08/2023 22:22

I believe she is guilty.

But ultimately my thoughts are with the victims and their families. They are the important ones in this.

Just seeing her face everywhere the last few days has made me feel sick. God knows how the families felt seeing her every day in court. I somehow hope they find peace. And they get the justice they deserve. RIP to all the babies. And prayers for all the ones she assaulted.

Flute56 · 20/08/2023 22:23

if Lucy is ever released I think she would have to change her identity

HaveYouHeardOfARoadAtlas · 20/08/2023 22:27

Flute56 · 20/08/2023 22:23

if Lucy is ever released I think she would have to change her identity

She’s never getting released

novalia89 · 20/08/2023 22:29

bellac11 · 20/08/2023 22:01

Was she held on remand in between arrests or was she living at home, was she working still?

I hadnt realised until posters said, that the notes where she says 'I wont ever have a family' had been written after the first arrest.

Did she give explanation for the notes in terms of her saying she was evil and she did this?

I hadn't realised that statement was after her arrest too. I considered that she was potentially jealous of the families and was incredibly lonely, so tried to destroy the family out of envy. But if the murders started on placement then I don't think that could be the case.

Eenymeanymineymo · 20/08/2023 22:29

Flute56 · 20/08/2023 22:23

if Lucy is ever released I think she would have to change her identity

Don't think that's likely. She's in prison until she dies.

GardenBirdie · 20/08/2023 22:31

@Puzzledandpissedoff

“there are some things worse than death. A reputation as a serial baby killer is one of those things”

For normal people, yes. A serial-killing narcissist with absolutely nothing else left going for them may decide they like the notoriety.

novalia89 · 20/08/2023 22:32

GrouchyKiwi · 20/08/2023 19:30

And DNA, fingerprints, EVERYTHING FORENSIC, are STILL circumstantial evidence!

It doesn't mean what you think it means.

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Exactly, I read a large thread on this on reddit. Take a murder case where someone's hair is on a jumper of the victim. They could have given the victim a hug earlier that day.
A rape case and sperm is found - it could have been consensual or it was consensual and then the rapist wore a condom leaving only sperm of the falsely accused etc.
Blood found in a car - from a cut finger and they were just a passenger etc.

AvocadotoastORahouse · 20/08/2023 22:33

itsgettingweird · 20/08/2023 21:53

Mnetcurtains what a fab username!

I love when posters throw dyslexia at me. Especially because I'm dyslexic 🤣🤣🤣🤪

I enjoyed that one!

Along the lines of " I AM Canadian" for those of us who have bee here a long time

novalia89 · 20/08/2023 22:35

Tippley · 20/08/2023 21:03

Would it be easy though? The threshold to progress to trial is high, and then the jury decide based on the evidence and the defence put forward in a fair trial. Its not a case of someone being put forward as a scapegoat and then a jury being coerced into finding them guilty.

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Yes, that wasn't worded particularly well, because it clearly isn't easy as this case took 10 months and years to get to court. I was more pondering the possibility.

TheShellBeach · 20/08/2023 22:46

Mistymist · 20/08/2023 22:09

@nolamesallowed seriously, have you got any shame? You are defending a convicted child murderer because you have no fukcing closure?

How about those poor little babies and their families who have lost their lives forever? How about their closure and their pain?!
Your replies are so sickening!

Probably best not to give it oxygen..

novalia89 · 20/08/2023 22:48

bellac11 · 20/08/2023 21:04

Of course she is unlikely

She doesnt appear (yet) to have had any mental or personality disorder. She doesnt appear to have any other type of disorders which could lead to impulsive or disinhibited behaviour

She doesnt appeaer to have had an abusive, trauma background

She doesnt appear to have been motivated by the common motivators, money, love/anger.

She doesnt appear to have had a history of bullying, cruelty, anti social behaviour

Its nothing to do with prejudice. On or many of the above markers are often seen in serial killers. On the face of it at the moment, she doesnt appear to have any of them (although she may have killed out of anger, who knows)

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We don't know a lot of these things though. We don't know how traumatic her childhood was or if she does have some disorder that has gone unnoticed. She may be deeply lonely and not made it clear. I know people who have very traumatic things happen to them and have kept it secret from nearly everyone.

But beside from that, do all serial killers have to show previous signs? Like would Harold Shipman be a likely candidate for a serial killer?

novalia89 · 20/08/2023 22:53

Flapjacker48 · 19/08/2023 14:33

The text messages to friends were telling - a combination of wanting to be a hero, wanting pity when children in her "care" died and also anger when she was told she wouldn't be in that room for a shift (as more of a duty of care thing after baby deaths, rather than any suspicions on her).

Also there was odd time keeping behaviour - turning up to work very early, leaving way after shift ended and coming in on days off (not on overtime, just turning up to "check" on babies and families") - this should also have been picked up on by ward sisters, aside from anything staying several hours either side of a 12hr shift should have been picked up in terms of fatigue, working time etc

I agree with all of these things with the texts messages. I know someone who sounds exactly like this in her texts and she is very manipulative. Obviously not aserial killer, but I can read the manipulation and subtle attention seeking in those messages.

UnRavellingFast · 20/08/2023 23:43

Mooshamoo · 20/08/2023 13:01

She is a natural blonde. Look at photos of her as a child. She was blonde .

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I think her hair colour is completely irrelevant. But if it helps, I was very blonde as a kid and am now dark brown. I don’t think that means I have slowly become more likely to be a murderer!

XelaM · 20/08/2023 23:49

UnRavellingFast · 20/08/2023 23:43

I think her hair colour is completely irrelevant. But if it helps, I was very blonde as a kid and am now dark brown. I don’t think that means I have slowly become more likely to be a murderer!

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Actually the majority of the more famous female murders (that I've heard of) were blondes 👱‍♀️

Ehla · 21/08/2023 00:20

What evidence is there ? It's circumstantial.She was accused of killing and arrested,then some letters are found that Lucy Letby wrote after she had been accused and arrested of committing these heinous crimes. If she really was guilty,why write letters, saying how evil she is and that she did it. Is that the only evidence the prosecution had for saying she did it ? .No one would keep letters like that if they were guilty.. Also other deaths occurred around the same time that she couldn't have done.Evidence says in 2016 more deaths occurred,when it hadn't The CQC were going in and finding failings,this was after Lucy Letby been arrested. The cannulas were put in to deep by the doctors. A lot was going on at that hospital,not enough staff,inadequate Yet Lucy Letby been found guilty of everything . Her defence were not doing their job properly. Her loyal friend said there's no way she could have done it. This case has been going on for years,and the unit has been downgraded. The NHS used to be thought of as world class,it isn't anymore. They found the perfect scapegoat and had no conscience in putting all their failings on a young woman in her early twenties, who would say yes she did it in a letter.

XelaM · 21/08/2023 00:38

Ehla · 21/08/2023 00:20

What evidence is there ? It's circumstantial.She was accused of killing and arrested,then some letters are found that Lucy Letby wrote after she had been accused and arrested of committing these heinous crimes. If she really was guilty,why write letters, saying how evil she is and that she did it. Is that the only evidence the prosecution had for saying she did it ? .No one would keep letters like that if they were guilty.. Also other deaths occurred around the same time that she couldn't have done.Evidence says in 2016 more deaths occurred,when it hadn't The CQC were going in and finding failings,this was after Lucy Letby been arrested. The cannulas were put in to deep by the doctors. A lot was going on at that hospital,not enough staff,inadequate Yet Lucy Letby been found guilty of everything . Her defence were not doing their job properly. Her loyal friend said there's no way she could have done it. This case has been going on for years,and the unit has been downgraded. The NHS used to be thought of as world class,it isn't anymore. They found the perfect scapegoat and had no conscience in putting all their failings on a young woman in her early twenties, who would say yes she did it in a letter.

🙄 Read up on the evidence (and watch interviews with the consultants who reported her) first before talking utter nonsense. And friends of murders never think they could commit such acts because people are capable of hiding heinous thoughts/intentions. Murders can look and behave like any other person next door. Did Chris Watts look like someone who could kill his kids one by one with his bare hands and then throw them away like rubbish (having killed their pregnant mother first)?

PicturesOfDogs · 21/08/2023 01:09

nolamesallowed · 20/08/2023 19:06

@magicalkitty I see your point and understand it but there just isn't forensic evidence. It just doesn't exist. I can't convict a person on circumstantial. I truly hope they have caught the right person.

You say forensic evidence, but even DNA evidence is ‘circumstantial’.

Do you feel this way about other cases where there’s no video evidence of the crime being committed?
What about convictions years ago, when forensic evidence didn’t exist? Do you think no one should have been convicted of a crime before ‘forensic’ evidence existed?

Not trying to be goady, genuinely trying to understand your viewpoint.

Part of me admires your view that everything must be 100% proven before anyone is ever convicted, but another part is horrified at what atrocities could be committed in the face of such naïvety.

The burden of proof is beyond reasonable doubt, and it seems that the jury took this seriously.

Its a high burden of proof, and the jury, after so many months, and thousands of pages of evidence, have obviously deemed that threshold was met

PicturesOfDogs · 21/08/2023 01:19

Posted without reading the follow ups to this question. Can see now everything I’ve written has already been said.

Even if there video proof I reckon this poster would argue it was probably a deep fake or something 🤦‍♀️

LAHallucinations · 21/08/2023 01:19

I'm just watching the end of Panorama, they've said there were 13 deaths during Lucy Letby's last year on the neonatal unit and she was on duty for every one of them

XelaM · 21/08/2023 02:03

LAHallucinations · 21/08/2023 01:19

I'm just watching the end of Panorama, they've said there were 13 deaths during Lucy Letby's last year on the neonatal unit and she was on duty for every one of them

25 unexplained deaths/near deaths all together and she was on shift for all of them

AvocadotoastORahouse · 21/08/2023 02:40

@Ehla do you even know what circumstantial evidence is, or means? And I'm pretty sure there was quite a lot of evidence presented in the 10 months this trial took.

echt · 21/08/2023 03:42

Eenymeanymineymo · 20/08/2023 22:29

Don't think that's likely. She's in prison until she dies.

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Lucy Letby has not been sentenced yet.

itsgettingweird · 21/08/2023 06:10

I agree with all of these things with the texts messages. I know someone who sounds exactly like this in her texts and she is very manipulative. Obviously not aserial killer, but I can read the manipulation and subtle attention seeking in those messages.

It's seen on SM too.

People posting a status like "🥲" or "I'm really angry - you know who you are" etc.

Anything to get everyone questioning what's up and then replying "I'll inbox you".

I often think if someone had the close bonds and friendships the number of replies seem to indicate they have just text/called someone to chat in the first place.