Page 26 | Lucy Letby guilty - part 2

twoandcooplease · 2023-08-19T00:47:10+00:00

Thread 1 Lucy Letby guilty http://www.mumsnet.com/Talk/_chat/4875009-lucy-letby-guilty Just in case anyone wants to keep the conversation going

BeenThereDoneThat101 · 20/08/2023 14:00

Mooshamoo · 20/08/2023 12:55

I do think that no one starts out evil.

When I was younger, I used to be extremely kind and compassionate.

A series of things then happened to me. One thing was that my dad hadn't been around, and I went to see my dad as an adult and he told me that he didn't want to see me again. Also his brother (my uncle) was extremely cruel and cold to me and told me that I wasnt part of their family.

I fell like their behaviour to me has now resulted in me extremely being cold and hard.

I am cold and hard now.

not only am I not kind to people anymore, I can't seem to love people or form deep connections with anyone anymore.

I feel like I am really cold to people.

I'm aware I'm like this but I can't seem to change myself.

I wasn't loved so I can't seem to love others.

I think "my own dad didn't want me" and my heart is so hurt, I can't seem to be kind to anyone else.

I genuinely seem to have lost the ability to be kind and caring to others. It really makes me sad. And it's made me very lonely too. I want to change but I can't seem to.

It's just a reflection on this case. I wasn't cold and hard until someone was cold and hard to me.

It's a minor reflection on how kind people came become very cruel.

L letby is a very extreme case. I would never ever go out and harm anyone. She is an extreme case. But I wonder did anyone abuse her. Something maybe happened to make her have no empathy. Still there is no excuse whatsoever for what she did. .most people who were abused as kids don't go on to physically harm anyone

I’m sorry you went through all that.

I think that we are often shaped by our life experiences, but I think we need to be careful not to automatically blame outside forces for abhorrent behaviour, because that takes away some of the responsibility for the individual’s part in it.

I absolutely do think that people can be born evil. For some, a bad upbringing may bring out that evil, but it is the person who is the evil not the upbringing. This is evidenced by the fact that not all abused children turn out to be murderers and abusers themselves. If it was all about nurture then the rates would reflect that and they don’t.

Similarly someone born evil could end up with the opportunity to commit that evil, such as Lucy Letby ending up in a position where she had power and control and the opportunity to use it, and the excitement she clearly gained from it.

Mooshamoo · 20/08/2023 14:04

scoobycute · 20/08/2023 13:57

This is the most ridiculous thing I have read about the case thus far!!!

People are not shocked because of what she looks like!!! They're shocked because of what she has done. They're shocked because she simply does not fit the profile (in many many ways) of a psychopathic serial killer. They're shocked because of her age and her upbringing. They're shocked because there is no evidence of a broken home/tragic home life, they're shocked because she didn't show any other signs to colleagues or family of being the murderer that she is and they're shocked because she was polite and "nice" - see comment one of the consultants made when he first discovered it was LL.

Any very very brief comment about hair colour in the media coverage I'd imagine is more to do with the fact she has "gone back to natural colour" due to lack of access to a hairdresser/stress she's been under/looks like her real self now rather than a more glamorous version of herself/focus has been moreso on trial rather than looks/looks grey/washed out now as trial has taken its toll etc.

The comments you've made about the ethnicity of the consultant who was the initial whistleblower are completely fabricated and have no grounds. (that the managers were white, that that's why they were siding with LL) He wasn't listened to because the hospital was trying to "save its reputation" which is horrendous.

Race has absolutely nothing to do with this.

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Eh have you read this thread at all?

Several people have said that this case is more shocking because she is young, white and middle class.

Jesus your post is totally tone deaf.

BIossomtoes · 20/08/2023 14:17

scoobycute · 20/08/2023 13:57

This is the most ridiculous thing I have read about the case thus far!!!

People are not shocked because of what she looks like!!! They're shocked because of what she has done. They're shocked because she simply does not fit the profile (in many many ways) of a psychopathic serial killer. They're shocked because of her age and her upbringing. They're shocked because there is no evidence of a broken home/tragic home life, they're shocked because she didn't show any other signs to colleagues or family of being the murderer that she is and they're shocked because she was polite and "nice" - see comment one of the consultants made when he first discovered it was LL.

Any very very brief comment about hair colour in the media coverage I'd imagine is more to do with the fact she has "gone back to natural colour" due to lack of access to a hairdresser/stress she's been under/looks like her real self now rather than a more glamorous version of herself/focus has been moreso on trial rather than looks/looks grey/washed out now as trial has taken its toll etc.

The comments you've made about the ethnicity of the consultant who was the initial whistleblower are completely fabricated and have no grounds. (that the managers were white, that that's why they were siding with LL) He wasn't listened to because the hospital was trying to "save its reputation" which is horrendous.

Race has absolutely nothing to do with this.

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Absolutely. None of the six white consultant paediatricians were listened to either.

Mooshamoo · 20/08/2023 14:20

BIossomtoes · 20/08/2023 14:17

Absolutely. None of the six white consultant paediatricians were listened to either.

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Unreal. Are you white? If you are white you don't have to see what happens

Of course race has something to do this.

If she was black, Indian, mixed race she would have been investigated a lot earlier.

White people are treated preferably in every place .

Mooshamoo · 20/08/2023 14:23

And I'm not just talking about how she was treated in the workplace.

I'm talking about how she is reported in the media. Every newspapers is saying "she is normal from a nice background blah blah blah"

People are more shocked because she is "normal" "middle class" " the correct race"

Puzzledandpissedoff · 20/08/2023 14:23

Race has absolutely nothing to do with this

Not having been there I don't claim to know, but it does seem a shame that some have to bring alleged racism into absolutely everything, even to the point of inventing scenarios to justify it

You'll find no greater opponent of racism, but even I wouldn't be tasteless enough to drag it into a thread like this

BIossomtoes · 20/08/2023 14:26

Puzzledandpissedoff · 20/08/2023 14:23

Race has absolutely nothing to do with this

Not having been there I don't claim to know, but it does seem a shame that some have to bring alleged racism into absolutely everything, even to the point of inventing scenarios to justify it

You'll find no greater opponent of racism, but even I wouldn't be tasteless enough to drag it into a thread like this

This.

TheShellBeach · 20/08/2023 14:26

Flute56 · 19/08/2023 06:56

I wouldnt be surprised if the nurse hangs herself in her cell because that would be the only option. I could not live if I had done what she had done. The flack she will get from other inmates nevermind outside if she was ever released would be too much to cope with and death would be the only solution.

Well, Allitt hasn't hanged herself.
She's probably jealous of the attention LL will get.

scoobycute · 20/08/2023 14:27

@Mooshamoo all 630 comments? No forgive me judge.

Several comments on MN is not "our society" nor does it account for the UK as a whole.

I stand by my original comments. Nothing in this case has any relevance to race.

P.s you havnt used "tone deaf" in the correct context.

Mustardseed86 · 20/08/2023 14:30

Mooshamoo · 20/08/2023 14:04

Eh have you read this thread at all?

Several people have said that this case is more shocking because she is young, white and middle class.

Jesus your post is totally tone deaf.

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Not one person has said it's more shocking because she is white though.

Mooshamoo · 20/08/2023 14:31

Puzzledandpissedoff · 20/08/2023 14:23

Race has absolutely nothing to do with this

Not having been there I don't claim to know, but it does seem a shame that some have to bring alleged racism into absolutely everything, even to the point of inventing scenarios to justify it

You'll find no greater opponent of racism, but even I wouldn't be tasteless enough to drag it into a thread like this

I'm absolutely astounded at the people saying this.

It's absolutely unbelievable.

I am just looking at other forums online saying the exact same things that I am:

"That the case is presented in the media as being more shocking , because she is white, young and middle class"

People are saying it everywhere online.

Also I could have sworn that other people also said it earlier in this thread (part 1). That it was seen as more shocking because she is white , young and middle class.

How did it all of a sudden turn the other way, where now it is disgusting to race in this case. Truly bizarre

.

magicalkitty · 20/08/2023 14:35

I don't think it's race, it's probably more about her gender and age if anything. If Letby was not white, I believe the reactions and disbelief would be the same.

If she was male or 20+ years older, people would have an easier time believing it.

Mustardseed86 · 20/08/2023 14:37

Mooshamoo · 20/08/2023 14:31

I'm absolutely astounded at the people saying this.

It's absolutely unbelievable.

I am just looking at other forums online saying the exact same things that I am:

"That the case is presented in the media as being more shocking , because she is white, young and middle class"

People are saying it everywhere online.

Also I could have sworn that other people also said it earlier in this thread (part 1). That it was seen as more shocking because she is white , young and middle class.

How did it all of a sudden turn the other way, where now it is disgusting to race in this case. Truly bizarre

.

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They're saying that other people see it as more shocking because she's white. I don't think anyone has actually said they personally feel that makes it more shocking or less believable, it's just one of those comments people make to cast aspersions on everyone else.

GardenBirdie · 20/08/2023 14:44

magicalkitty · 20/08/2023 08:37

I think this case is scary to us all because no one would have looked at her and thought she was capable of such monstrous acts. We all try to imagine a motive because we think, how can someone commit these crimes for no reason whatsoever?

Personally, I think there is quite an obvious motive here - jealousy. From the sounds of it, she hadn't had much experience in terms of romantic relationships for a woman in her mid 20s. You can guarantee the press would have dragged up her ex-boyfriends if there were any of note. Maybe she was Infatuated with the married doctor, but it doesn't sound like anything physical happened as there was no solid proof of such in all their messages according to the reporting.

Maybe this led to some sort of 'incel' mentality, and a deep belief/ fear of not marrying and having children (she said as such in her note). Perhaps this spiralled into an irrational hatred towards the couples she saw coming in to the unit, who had relationships/marriages and a new baby. Maybe she felt overwhelming jealousy towards these people and wanted to destroy it. She then revelled in their grief, as these people no longer had what she feared she never would.

There’s probably no one reason or neat answer and jealousy may well have been a part of it. But I think she wrote she’d never marry or have a family because she knew she was going to jail. I just hope in the fulness of time she confesses and shows the parents at least a glimmer of the reasons, and some remorse. She’ll probably admit the crimes when it’s in her interests to do so (if she stays alive that long). Beverley Allitt confessed a few months after her conviction, given the choice of staying at Rampton for treatment or going back to prison where she was basically dog-meat. I’m sure any grain of understanding would help the parents at least a bit.

theDudesmummy · 20/08/2023 14:44

There are undoubtedly people in the country who do feel more shocked than they would if she wasn't white. In many cases completely unconsciously. I don't think that can be denied. It's a valid aspect to discuss in my opinion.

Puzzledandpissedoff · 20/08/2023 14:45

People are saying it everywhere online

People say a lot of things online, even sometimes making things up, but it doesn't necessarily follow that everything they say is credible or even rooted in good faith

Beyond that I'm afraid I'm not interested in engaging with race baiting; I'll go right on combating racism wherever I can, but in this particular case I'd rather consider the traumatised parents and how this might possibly be prevented from happening again

SarahShorty · 20/08/2023 14:53

I don't have anything nice to say about that evil cow. My X/Twitter account got locked for a week for hateful conduct because I said how I truly feel about her. Free country my arse. Anyone who kills babies is subhuman imo.

theDudesmummy · 20/08/2023 15:01

On another topic, I had thought the names of the babies who died had not been made public, but in fact they have, l have just found. (I wasnt looking for them, just reading various news items about the court case). I was surprised by this, it seems wrong, given the way the tabloid press can behave in this country.

GardenBirdie · 20/08/2023 15:01

bellac11 · 20/08/2023 09:01

I thought it was odd that one some of the notes Ive seen she says she will never have children and a family. I didnt understand that, why at her age would she say that?

Was she told she was infertile or something?

Because the police were investigating - she knew what she’d done made ‘normality’ impossible, and she knew she’d end up in jail. That’s my take on it, anyway.

Puzzledandpissedoff · 20/08/2023 15:02

I don't think anyone has actually said they personally feel that (being white) makes it more shocking or less believable, it's just one of those comments people make to cast aspersions on everyone else

Indeed, @Mustardseed86; it's true plenty have remarked on her "normal background", but that's hardly a purely white characteristic - unless it's being implied that black families are unlikely to share this, and I wouldn't know where to start with such poverty of expectation

This is also why I sometimes muse as to whether such comments are made in good faith or not, and I stand by my comment that it's perhaps best not to engage and to keep the focus on the families and future prevention, where IMO it belongs

QueenBitch666 · 20/08/2023 15:03

Anemone414 · 19/08/2023 11:57

Where will I find the podcasts?

spotify.link/q5hy61P3pCb

QueenBitch666 · 20/08/2023 15:03

LunaTheCat · 19/08/2023 11:53

Can anybody tell me the name of the podcast?

spotify.link/q5hy61P3pCb

Puzzledandpissedoff · 20/08/2023 15:08

I had thought the names of the babies who died had not been made public, but in fact they have

Won't there have been an inquest into each death, theDudesmummy? I'd have thought unexpected deaths in hospital pretty well qualify?

If so I'm fairly sure such records are in the public domain so they won't have taken much finding, though I do agree there may be a question mark over rehashing them again in the blasted media

theDudesmummy · 20/08/2023 15:12

I don't know about the inquest question, I have to say. But I found several news outlets which gave a list of at least 8 of the deceased babies' names (first name and surname) in their coverage of the trial, not at all hard to find.

Flapjacker48 · 20/08/2023 15:13

@theDudesmummy At the initial court hearings the names of the children were made public. By the time of the trial applications had been made by the parents for the vicitims and the parents to be anonymous