Anyone else never told "the secret"?

[bollytrolly]

I've just always been a bit of a mess all my life my appearance no matter how carefully I press my clothes or do my hair or put my make up on by the time I get to where I am going I always look a mess with frizzy hair, clothes all creased and make up sliding off my face. If I have something to go to where I'll be photographed I will end up getting a black eye or a bee will still me on the face. I seem to be so hard on clothes, shoes and socks and everything seems to fall to bits in double quick time even with better brands. People always slag Boris Johnson for looking a mess but I wonder if he is just a male version of me and can't get it right even if he really tries?

I had awful acne as a teen and am still getting spots now at 44 even though I take great care with my skincare, see dermatologists. Other women seem to glide though life, cool calm and collected never a hair out of place, they never seem to sweat or go attend meetings with a large toothpaste stain on their boob that they don't notice until after.

Even with items I remember at school it was always me who got the desk someone had drawn a knob on with black marker or got the ripped books! I remember as a girl I used to think of the other girls as "top girls" you know proper girls who looked nice and did ballet and horse riding lessons and then me who had awful allergies and had snot pouring out my nose half the year!

I just wanted to be a feminine and delicate woman for once in my life but now perimenopause his upon me and all my short comings are just getting worse, chin hair anyone?

Is there some secret women learn as young girls about how to achieve this aura of polish? Is there anyone like me who still has no clue?

It doesn't matter. How you look doesn't matter. What other people think about how you look doesn't matter. Fuck it. Fuck it all.

It does matter.

It matters in a work environment, for a start. People expect a certain standard of dress and appearance. And at interviews.

If someone looks a shambles, it implies they are disorganised, don't care, etc ( look at Boris.)

Everyone makes a judgement on how you look. First impressions before you even open your mouth, matter.

Surely there is an element of personal pride? Looking scruffy and dishevelled doesn't do anything other than make people feel yuck ( as in the OP's post.)

Looking 'together' usually means you behave more confidently.

I love this thread. I identify with this, so much!

I have wavy, mid curly hair which always eventually goes frizzy at my temples. It only looks half decent the day I wash it and put product on it, but washing it more than a few times a week isn't possible because that dries it out and it becomes like straw. So I have to live with looking like a mess 60% of the week.

I know that I could look put together if I woke up an hour early and used straightening irons, etc, but that seems a bizarre waste of time on a weekday working from home.

Makeup never looks right on me (extremely pale). I love the look of eyeliner on other women, but my eyes must be the wrong shape to pull it off, as I just look like a clown whenever I have tried it.

I have always been slim though, so I have the thing of people making comments about how I look so different/ unrecognisable etc, on the few occasions that I do make an effort (e.g. attending a wedding or similar). That takes 1.5 hours though, and I am not going to do that more than a few times a year.

For me, I think the main thing making me look unkempt is my hair. I see a lot of other women my age (late 30s) with no makeup who look far more put together than me, just because their hair is naturally straight.

However, I do agree that neurodiversity may also factor into this. I am dyslexic and dyspraxic, so looking presentable is an additional organisational task that I just can't maintain. Also, my mother was somewhat similar, so I never had anyone to teach me how to do this stuff as a teenager.

I think this thread is going a perfectly good job just now but I’ve set up another thread over on style and beauty.

As some posters have said, it doesn’t need to be laborious, high cost rocket science, just getting to grips with the basics.

I don’t want to sound like an “you’re worth it” advert, but we ARE worth it!!

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/style_and_beauty/4873265-self-care-self-worth-scruffy-women-on-manoeuvres

@Draconis I don't think I used too much but then it's entirely possibly I did thinking the more I use the less I'll frizz 😆I'll try again with normal conditioner and see how I get on.

I suspect I may have ADHD and this actually makes sense. Because as others say, the whole 'put together' thing is not beyond the wit of man - won't make you a raging beauty but skincare regime, regular haircuts, etc etc all just require organisation really... but for me the overriding internal reaction is "NOPE" at the though of giving over that much brainpower to stuff that doesn't interest me at all, and it always has been that way. As a twenty-something, no matter how much I longed to look beautiful and classy like my friend with the great hair and make-up skills, I simply COULD NOT BE ARSED to learn how to do it myself - I probably spent more time worrying about it than it would have taken to learn and do it, but something inside me just wouldn't take that knowledge in. I would plan to do a skincare regimen and for whatever reason would just not manage to do it 8 times out of ten. I haven't had my hair cut for months because I just can't be bothered to remember to book an appointment and then remember to turn up for it. And while I used to care a lot about these failings, I never cared enough for it to drown out all the other thoughts in my head, because there are so many, all the time, competing for attention.

Maybe now ADHD is cool with the kids on TikTok, the frizzy, frazzled look can become a new kind of chic 😄

I've no idea how I look, but judging by the "tips" on this thread I'm guessing I look rough! I always run out of time in the morning so my hair is usually wet, patchy make-up, and I'll have at least one mark on my clothes that I don't notice until I'm in the car. I don't really care, though. I'm not here to please other people. The one thing I do like to make sure is always done is to have neat, shaped eyebrows. That really makes a difference to a face.

Oh no I belong in here too. I was a dirt magnet as a child. There was a girl in my class who was always immaculate and Teflon coated and I wonder if somehow I was attracting all the dirt molecules away from her.

As an adult I’ve tried to keep my clothes very simple - I can’t do frills or flaps. If it can twist, slip or fall it will on me.

I insist on orthodontics, professional haircuts and proper fitted shoes for my dc to try and offset some of their dodgy genetic heritage.

@MallardsMoorhensAndLethe Thats a fabulous post but I don’t think I have the executive function skills or RAM to implement most of it.

I couldn't tell you if it was my hair type or not so I can't make recommendations.
I think if I left it to air dry without doing anything it would frizz.
I have long hair, leave it to mostly air dry then use the hair dryer to take the final bit of damp out of it and give it a bit of lift at the root. I then either smooth it out with the hairdryer and a round brush, use a straighter to give a bouncy blowdry look, or put a wave in it with a wand. After this it is smooth and frizz free. I don't wash and style it more than twice a week and it stays frizz free in between.
I do notice it is softer after using the aussie 3 minute miracle so I use that as normal conditioner and leave it in while I wash or shave.

I think the people saying it is possible to look nice are missing the three things that put a spanner in the works, time, money and temperature. Don't underestimate the power of cheap fabrics combined with overheating to wreck appearance. Plus it takes ages to keep doing hair, makeup, ironing clothes etc.

I agree those things are very confusing but I don't think either skincare or eyebrow care are going to have a demonstrable effect on whether or not you look 'put together' so I wouldn't bother!

Unless you're actively fighting ageing or some other skin concern I think it's fine to stick to sunscreen in the morning, a clean and something comforting at night. And just pluck out any eyebrow hair that is outside of the main shape.

I think it’s all about priorities – if you want to look fabulous, you need to put time and effort and money into it. If you don’t want to put time and effort and money into it, you won’t look as polished.
I was never “taught“ how to be “girly“ by my mother – she taught me to paint a wall, but not paint my face!
I don’t have the inclination to spend hours on what I look like, I have better things to do with my time and money but I have embraced this now. I have found clothes that fit my shape – they aren’t fashionable, they aren’t from a supermarket/Primark/Next as those clothes shapes basically don’t fit my body. If I need to buy trousers from Bon Marche or tops from Damart or M&S to fit my shape, I will. Yes, they might be seen as “old lady shops” but they do have good basics that mix in well.
A properly fitted bra is absolutely essential – again, you may not get that for £15 from Asda, but it will make a huge difference.
ultimately, I think you have to decide what your priority is – do you want to put the time and effort into looking more polished or would you rather put your time and effort into something else?

I used to be like this, stressed and constantly feeling shit about my appearance and then I learned the real secret… stop giving a fuck. I feel sorry for anyone that still stresses and worries about appearances. How I look is no reflection on who I am and if anyone else gives enough of a shit about it I definitely don’t want to be around them, shallow people that focus on only looks don’t have much brains.

Its easier to not give a f*ck when you’ve got your family and you’re older and you’re more sorted on a personal (or maybe professional) level but when you’re at the beginning of that path then I think it’s natural that your looks and presentation are a higher priority.

I’m much older now and my family is complete (adult) I no longer obsess over my looks (no point, they’re gone), my presentation (I don’t go anywhere glamorous anymore) etc. it’s a lot easier to not give a f*ck about things that seem shallow once you’re older and ticked some of those boxes (job, relationship, children) etc. It’s a luxury I can afford to have.

There is no doubt I was treated well and sometimes outright fawned over in some workplaces etc because I was attractive. (This was some decades ago long before today’s workplace boundaries).

I wouldn’t go back to those days of fretting about my outside appearance though, I prefer the age I am now (60s) to my twenties.

This reminds me of a conversation I have with my mum every time she comes for lunch-

"Lucy, it's like all this food has just appeared from nowhere, you make it look so effortless- how do you do it?"

"I just do it all ahead, mum- I've been cooking bits and pieces over the last few days."

"No but really, what's the secret?" etc etc

People who look effortlessly chic actually make a lot of effort, it's just you don't see it, eg I have a friend who re-sews all the buttons on her clothes as she thinks high street buttons aren't sewn on well enough, so her buttons sit right and never have loose threads (Kate Middleton's high street stuff is also re-sewn like this).

Anyone can do this stuff- it's just a question of whether you can be bothered. Having plenty of time and money is obviously a great help but for people who really care about it, it's a priority.

Look indeed at Boris and see how far he came on the basis of bugger all ability, grooming skills or personal charm. I think people think they have far more control over their destiny than is actually the case - brushing your hair well or not means very little against a plethora of class, sex, regional and other prejudices that will promote or relegate you in people's minds long before they get round to considering your intrinsic worth.

For me, I'm in librarianship/research services and in that sector looking a touch scruffy and/or bizarre is pretty much par for the course as it's largely public sector/Higher Education where intellect and qualifications have a much higher value than in a lot of the private sector where 'polish' is made much more of. Senior management often appear to be strangers to the hairbrush, and the average academic does not present like a middle manager in a public relations firm. Thank Christ. Certainly I have never had any trouble with getting jobs or having the respect and trust of my colleagues and customers in this arena; except once where a manager who had employed me told me she had almost not given me the job, despite my qualifications, because I wore a cardigan to interview - she was a power dresser and very polished and, as it turned out, a complete psychopath who drove almost half the staff under her to resign or go on long term sick in the year I worked under her - I chose the 'run for it' route and have never worked for or with anyone quite like her in libraries before or since.

I mean I did briefly flirt with the idea of becoming a lawyer, and applied for many traineeships and got nowhere - perhaps my general air of 'got out of bed, brushed my hair and put on a clean blouse, what more do you want' may have played a part there, but as it turns out this was a massive boon as I would have been a terrible lawyer. I guess you just find your niche.

I think it’s just how you’re born - I have two DDs, and one is always impeccably neat and well put together, the other is like me and can’t drink a glass of water without getting something completely different all over her top. The messy one has an ADHD diagnosis, which I suspect of myself too, which may be related? The tidy one spends no time at all getting ready, so it’s not about hours of grooming; I think some people just have a good sense of spacial awareness (food nowhere near clothes, door handles nowhere near belt loops to rip them, jumpers not pulled overhead as if fighting them so hair isn’t messed up).

I know time spent grooming and unchangeable physical attributes (spots, sweating, etc) have something to do with it, but I have just resigned myself to being one of those genetically scruffy types, just cheerful about it.

To an extent, that's true, but it's always going to take me longer than someone with naturally straight hair to look polished. Straightening my whole head of hair would take an hour, vs a person with naturally straight hair who can just run a brush through it and then have time to do makeup.

It's the main reason that I can't be arsed. Having curly hair feels like a time tax.

I know what you mean. Even DH said to me recently "your hair looks so much better now than it used to", as I've finally got that bit figured out at least!

My hair "secrets"? A decent hairdresser, regular cuts and colours and a Dyson AirWrap! My hair has honestly never looked better. OK, it still frizzes in humidity, but a humidity spray does help with that a bit.

Make up - I had a MUA for my wedding so I quizzed her on what she was using and bought the same stuff. My biggest change here is setting spray.

As for the rest, clothes I think I look nice in look dreadful in photos sometimes and the minute a camera appears I gain four extra chins, so I can't help there!

I think ultimately the younger women that seem to have it sorted young either have a mother who knew what they were doing, or a group of like minded girlfriends that figured it out together.

On the other hand, my DM's like me and even though she's in her 60s we're now sharing our make up tips with each other as we discover them now! When I was a teen, she was a SAHM and never wore makeup. My girl friends from school never really wore it either and we weren't a "girlie-girl" type of group. We'd much rather have been lounging in jeans and sweaters, than dolling ourselves up!

There is no secret - it is jsut organisation and prioritisation. I am not naturally soignee, but a frew things that make a difference:

Dedicate a couple of hours or so every week to deep condition hair, use a decent face mask and tidy, shape and polish nails.

Moisturise your whole body every day.

Get a good skincare routine - do it daily.

Invest in good tweezers and a decent magnifying mirror.

Find a good anti frizz serum.

If you wear make up, develop an easy to use and maintain light day time look. Primer is your friend. Take a make up bag with you if you are out for the day.

Foundation garments matter as they help you stay less sweaty, avoid any see through clothes disasters and make your clothes hang better - I always wear a little cami top under my clothes - M&S cotton in winter and Uniqlo airism in summer.

Smart ish dresses in decent quality stretch fabric (eg heavy jersey) and a single bold colour (navy, red, deep pink, dark green etc..) are good for work, as a dress always looks smart and they don't crumple as much.

Black is never a smart or sophisticated as you think it is and if cheap or badly maintained can be very unforgiving.

Deal wth any clothes issues immediately - loose threads, missing buttons, stains, small holes.

Polish your shoes and keep them in good condition. also make sure your shoes work with your outfit.

Find a good scent and wear it every day - carry a small version with you.

Wear decent, discreet jewellery - ear studs and a nice chain necklace.

Carry a spare pair of tights in your bag.

Where possible buy clothes in natural fibres - they just hang better and look more expensive - get used to using the iron (spray starch is your friend).

Don't get hung up on clothes sizes - if you usually take a size 14 but a 16 fits better - get that 16.

But most people don't only focus on one thing - I really don't like this assertion that people who put effort and time into grooming somehow aren't clever or don't have any intellectual interests or capabilities.

That's just not true, it's perfectly possible to care about several things at the same time. I have an interest in clothes and skincare, in keeping fit and healthy, I also have an interest in history, and science and psychology and literature. Why does it have to be one or the other?

I had a conversation about this with my very lovely, very put together friend the other day. She is the 'effortlessly cool girl' and I've always envied her look. When I told her that she just always seems to look amazing without trying, she laughed so hard and looked at me as if I'd lost my mind.

As she said she has:

Loads of money (not a brag, a fact)
Loads of time
A personal trainer
A personal shopper
Weekly beauty treatments

I'd love all that. However, she also has a husband who 'expects' her to look a certain way. Now this, dear reader, is not what I want so I'll just content myself with what I've got.

I was one of those girls you talk about. A lot of it was luck but also my mother gave me huge amounts of self confidence and praise. And not give a fuckfullness.

I did get spots but they didn't bother me. I didn't always look immaculate, although my (still) best friend would say I did. Her mother was quite critical of her and she still doesn't feel "worthy" or attractive.

We are both in our 70s now and she still says I have the secret, even though my health is now very poor. If I do it's down to my mother.

Mothers need to teach their daughters to be comfortable in their skin.

@Farmageddon Indeed. I have a degree in Classics and post grad qualification in economics and work in a very technical industry at a fairly high level.

I have also just spent the last 20 mins painting my toenails neon pink.

I went to uni with a girl like that. Shiny shiny blonde hair, perfect skin with hardly any makeup and always in such neat clothes. Every time I saw her I got the song suddenly I see stuck in my head. She was also lovely and so smart. Wanted to be her so bad.

Alas I am not her and I never will be. Gave up chasing the neatness and embraced the slightly more unruly look that I like better anyway and yhat goes with my messy wavy hair and personality. Like a pp I have a very expressive face as well and even if I had "the secret" it wouldn't be a secret as everyone would be able to read it on my face.

My daughter is like this.

In her case it’s not about buying items to achieve her polish but a state of mind. She has a natural serenity and it shows in her face and the way she holds herself. My friend is the same, she is gentle and graceful not polished and pimped.

Aim for calmness, serenity, slow down. Dignity and grace (on repeat😂😂)