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Anyone else never told "the secret"?

397 replies

bollytrolly · 16/08/2023 00:02

I've just always been a bit of a mess all my life my appearance no matter how carefully I press my clothes or do my hair or put my make up on by the time I get to where I am going I always look a mess with frizzy hair, clothes all creased and make up sliding off my face. If I have something to go to where I'll be photographed I will end up getting a black eye or a bee will still me on the face. I seem to be so hard on clothes, shoes and socks and everything seems to fall to bits in double quick time even with better brands. People always slag Boris Johnson for looking a mess but I wonder if he is just a male version of me and can't get it right even if he really tries?

I had awful acne as a teen and am still getting spots now at 44 even though I take great care with my skincare, see dermatologists. Other women seem to glide though life, cool calm and collected never a hair out of place, they never seem to sweat or go attend meetings with a large toothpaste stain on their boob that they don't notice until after.

Even with items I remember at school it was always me who got the desk someone had drawn a knob on with black marker or got the ripped books! I remember as a girl I used to think of the other girls as "top girls" you know proper girls who looked nice and did ballet and horse riding lessons and then me who had awful allergies and had snot pouring out my nose half the year!

I just wanted to be a feminine and delicate woman for once in my life but now perimenopause his upon me and all my short comings are just getting worse, chin hair anyone?

Is there some secret women learn as young girls about how to achieve this aura of polish? Is there anyone like me who still has no clue?

OP posts:
herewegoroundthebastardbush · 16/08/2023 10:08

Farmageddon · 16/08/2023 09:55

But most people don't only focus on one thing - I really don't like this assertion that people who put effort and time into grooming somehow aren't clever or don't have any intellectual interests or capabilities.

That's just not true, it's perfectly possible to care about several things at the same time. I have an interest in clothes and skincare, in keeping fit and healthy, I also have an interest in history, and science and psychology and literature. Why does it have to be one or the other?

This is where I think the possible ADHD/executive function angle comes in. Yes it is possible for most people to think about more than one thing at a time. But the problem (or possibly virtue?) of the ADHD brain is its extreme business - there is no 'down time' in my head where I'm just staring thinking about nothing, there are constantly about 40 things all jumping up and down competing for attention in my head, then in will come a big stonking obsessional hyperfocus that will knock out everything for some unspecified time (and I will NOT notice time passing when I'm in that state), then the mental noise again, and I have to devote considerable effort to focus and try to work out WHICH of the various thoughts I'm having is the important one to focus on right now and keep focus on that thought until I've followed it and any attendant actions through to the end.... I mean I don't know what it's like in other people's brains but I have come to realise that it isn't like that for the most part.

I've missed my daughter's dentist appointment THREE TIMES this year and had to beg for them not to chuck her off the list because of this twice - this is not because I 'don't care' about my daughter or her teeth, or because I don't put it in the calendar or set myself reminders - it's because I look at the calendar on Tuesday, say 'ooh dentist on Friday, mustn't forget' and then the thought goes clean out of my head and I forget to look at the calendar again until Saturday. It's because the alert I actually remembered to set myself that TODAY IS THE DENTIST AT 2PM goes Off at noon, then the toddler spills her drink over her sandwich and I COMPLETELY FORGET.

My very organised partner and elder sister despair of me. I mask excellently at school and work because those are usually deadline driven environments where work can be crammed or exclusively focused on. But I could never work in, say, a kitchen, where you have to be thinking about 8 different things at once. I'm a nightmare domestically. And 'self-care' in the titivating sense just never rises close to the top of my 'what of these 45 things all shouting at my brain matters most right now' list to get any mental room, never mind several times a day for different elements of it.

Fortunately, things that are actually important have a tendency to insist on themselves (dentist's appointments being one of the exceptions to this rule). Suddenly realise you have no pants, you do some laundry. It's nearly dinner time, you better get some food in. But the same unavoidable urgency never occurs in the matter of doing my cuticles. So it just never gets in there!

Lateliein · 16/08/2023 10:08

I get compliments about my appearance, even though I've recently put on weight, and even though the perception is usually different to what I feel. I'm in my 40s and can no longer pull off the charmingly disorganised look which I seemed to rely on in my 20s and early parenthood.

For me it seems to be:

*Sleeper earrings that I don't change as well as a small silver or gold necklace and bracelet(s) , which I sometimes add a longer pendant to (I have about five). Never change the other jewellery either.
*Nice watch
*Loose, comfortable clothes. I have 2-3 silk tops and wide legged trousers..no longer fit my skinny jeans or fitted tops! Working on it(!) I mix with 2-3 blazers and have a couple of long cardis that I wear with longer line tops and pleather leggings/textured leggings.. Anything with an elasticated waist 😂. I also have a couple of lovely cashmere jumpers.
*serum for hair/good conditioner.
*Benefit bronzer and mascara
*primer and cheek highlighter
*liquid eyeliner is great because you look like you've made a huge effort when you haven't. I just do one quick flick at the end of the eye.

I teach full time and have 3 kids, a cat and a dog and a husband who is away a lot. I don't have much time for my appearance but the above seems to have earned me a rep of always looking polished and organised... Even though the majority of the time.. I'm not!

WestwardHo1 · 16/08/2023 10:09

Draconis · 16/08/2023 01:14

It's impossible to look lick a sack of spuds if your slim. Are you sure it's not just your perception of yourself?

Absolutely untrue. I'm on the skinny side of slim and it adds to my look on scruffy frizzy unkemptness. Clothes hang unevenly off my and those dresses that have unfortunately been the trend this year just make me look like a beanpole in a tent. A tent pole.

Slimness is held up as part of looking "put together". It really isn't

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Isitautumnyet23 · 16/08/2023 10:11

denpark · 16/08/2023 01:12

I've wondered this for most of my life.
Used to really upset me.
Since being diagnosed as autistic I look at it all very differently!

I didnt want to suggest this to OP but when she said about nothing feeling right, seatbelt straps, temp, being hot and uncomfortable in clothes, that was exactly what I thought.

Blackberriesbob · 16/08/2023 10:11

Things I've figured out re appearance:

  1. Whatever clothes you're wearing, the holy trinity are a nice bag, shoes and coat. If you have decent ones, no one cares if you're wearing cheap or nondescript jeans. They don't have to be expensive - just classic looking.
  1. Avoid showing too much skin over 40, unless you have a body like an A lister. Boobs hanging out when you're popping down to tesco screams mutton. A lot of people haven't got this memo.
  1. Figure out your colours. You can just do it online.
  1. What makes a difference to your face - eyebrows, lashes and lips. If I'm doing nothing else, I take care of my eyebrows and wear mascara. Red lipstick helps you look instantly done if you're going out. I always wear spf but I'm fairly pale.
  1. Basic grooming - hair always washed, regular showers. It's a matter of opinion but I think visible body hair is a bit gross, so I always shave my pits. I gave up getting my nails done because of COL but I keep them clean, short with a bit of polish.
marblesthecat · 16/08/2023 10:12

I think you're overthinking it.

I put quite bit of effort into my appearance in terms of hair and skincare, facial treatments, hair masks, staying slim etc but I can still look a bit dishevelled.

I get random stains on my clothes, my hair often sticks out at weird angles because I don't straighten it my eyeliner smudges but I still think I look OK most of the time. The thing that I worry most about is my skin ageing, I'm not really bothered about looking perfectly polished.

I'm sure other people have creased clothes/stains/smudged makeup/split ends if you look closely enough. And I'm sure even Kate Middleton gets a snotty nose during cold & flu season.

FanFckingTastic · 16/08/2023 10:12

As others have said, it's never a lucky accident that some women (and men) look polished and effortless - it takes time, money and organization. There are few hacks that I've found over the years to get some way to looking polished :

  • A pair of good sunglasses (hides a multitude of issues)
  • A decent coat / jacket / cardi etc (as above)
  • Finally and most importantly be comfortable with who you are. I was always taught 'Teeth out, tits up'.... If you are smiling and your back is straight then you look more confident.
herewegoroundthebastardbush · 16/08/2023 10:12

Remembermynamealways · 16/08/2023 10:06

My daughter is like this.

In her case it’s not about buying items to achieve her polish but a state of mind. She has a natural serenity and it shows in her face and the way she holds herself. My friend is the same, she is gentle and graceful not polished and pimped.

Aim for calmness, serenity, slow down. Dignity and grace (on repeat😂😂)

I'm hearing Madame Gazelle in that Ballet episode of Peppa Pig: "Grace and beau-teeee!"

Foxy1616 · 16/08/2023 10:12

MaybeOneAndDone · 16/08/2023 09:52

To an extent, that's true, but it's always going to take me longer than someone with naturally straight hair to look polished. Straightening my whole head of hair would take an hour, vs a person with naturally straight hair who can just run a brush through it and then have time to do makeup.

It's the main reason that I can't be arsed. Having curly hair feels like a time tax.

but only if you decide that straight hair is important to you! Why not embrace your curls? Then you don’t need to spend an hour straightening it … what’s important to you?

bollytrolly · 16/08/2023 10:13

@BertieBotts What I was saying was that even when I did do it a lot it still looked crap after a short while. I'm actually good at putting on make up, it looks great when I first apply it as I am quite arty but something about my body / skin just seems to repel make up off it. Even when I've had make up and hair done by professionals it melts off and frizzies up in a matter of a few hours I think my body just generates too much heat, oil and sweat or something.

OP posts:
BlossomCloud · 16/08/2023 10:14

ChoccyBickies · 16/08/2023 09:28

It doesn't matter. How you look doesn't matter. What other people think about how you look doesn't matter. Fuck it. Fuck it all.

It does matter.

It matters in a work environment, for a start. People expect a certain standard of dress and appearance. And at interviews.

If someone looks a shambles, it implies they are disorganised, don't care, etc ( look at Boris.)

Everyone makes a judgement on how you look. First impressions before you even open your mouth, matter.

Surely there is an element of personal pride? Looking scruffy and dishevelled doesn't do anything other than make people feel yuck ( as in the OP's post.)

Looking 'together' usually means you behave more confidently.

I mean personally I have been very professionally successful despite my inability to look immaculate.

And I promote and recruit in my department based on ability not how shiny someone's hair is.

Winnading · 16/08/2023 10:14

Hi my people 🖐

I understand OP, I'm one of those, no matter what I do, I look hedge dragged.
I dont have any way of helping this situation, however:-
I noticed back in school (oh so long ago) the put together girls were actually always touching up makeup, brushing hair, checking teeth, brushing their clothes down for an imaginary bit of lint, on a permanent diet.

So as I'm not made that way, I sort of thought a bit about it and went as low maintenance as I could get away with. Zero makeup, short hair, shave legs in summer only, sack it off in winter. Jeans and boots a lot of the time. I even chose jobs that would enable this low maintenance. Work in a motor garage, no one wonders why you dont wear makeup and live in jeans and boots. Get a cleaning job, no one even notices you. (A key job even better, you see no one except the security)
Postie, same and it's almost mandated to wear trousers and boots. Plus all the walking keeps the weight off.

But then I hit peri menopause and stopped giving a fuck. My hair is longer now, it's a wild mess most of the time. I wear whatever makes me happy outside of work. Which today is pink shorts, and a grey/orange top. I shave my legs when I remember. I am always very clean, just look messy and do not care.
Am also autistic.

Isitautumnyet23 · 16/08/2023 10:14

Blackberriesbob · 16/08/2023 10:11

Things I've figured out re appearance:

  1. Whatever clothes you're wearing, the holy trinity are a nice bag, shoes and coat. If you have decent ones, no one cares if you're wearing cheap or nondescript jeans. They don't have to be expensive - just classic looking.
  1. Avoid showing too much skin over 40, unless you have a body like an A lister. Boobs hanging out when you're popping down to tesco screams mutton. A lot of people haven't got this memo.
  1. Figure out your colours. You can just do it online.
  1. What makes a difference to your face - eyebrows, lashes and lips. If I'm doing nothing else, I take care of my eyebrows and wear mascara. Red lipstick helps you look instantly done if you're going out. I always wear spf but I'm fairly pale.
  1. Basic grooming - hair always washed, regular showers. It's a matter of opinion but I think visible body hair is a bit gross, so I always shave my pits. I gave up getting my nails done because of COL but I keep them clean, short with a bit of polish.

Good advice 👍🏻 Also in winter, if you have a nice coat, boots and bobble hat, you can pretty much get away with the same old jeans and top all the time. You look put together even when you have just thrown it on.

spiderlight · 16/08/2023 10:17

I've always felt like this, but an incident I had a few weeks back has changed my perspective slightly. I was in a service station loo on the way home from holidays. I came out of the cubicle and stood washing my hands at the end of a long row of sinks. There was a woman at the other end and I glanced over and thought 'Oh wow - her hair's a really nice colour!' I realised she was looking at me as well, so I looked away, and as I did so, I realised that I'd actually been looking at my own reflection in a mirror at the far end of the row of basins. If I had known I'd been looking at myself, I guarantee that my only thought would have been 'You look fat in that top' or something similarly negative and unflattering. It made me realise that we are so much less kind when looking at ourselves than we are towards other people.

That said, nobody told me the secret either!

bollytrolly · 16/08/2023 10:17

@MallardsMoorhensAndLethe Advice yes but I have spent plenty of money and time in the past I do still do more to look after my skin than most women I know and the one thing I do have at 44 even if I still get spots is very young looking plump, line free skin, almost like a teenagers (due to the spots of course 😉).

OP posts:
TheMousePipes · 16/08/2023 10:18

I am a stealth bag lady.

Things that help me:
Posture. Remember to stand up properly and that core muscles still exist.

Hair. My hair is completely wild. Instead of trying to tame it I now have it cut by a curl specialist who allows it to be wild and also the right shape. Trying to make your hair be what it isn’t usually ends up with the bag lady look.

Clothes. Most of the stuff in the shops looks shite on everyone unless they’re 14 years old and 6 feet tall. Find the shapes that suit and wear them. Do NOT buy the thing that nearly fits and is almost long enough and almost the right shade of green in the sale because it’s a fiver. You will always feel shit in it.

Try and look at yourself with the eyes you use for others. We all have a special bitchy gaze that se save for ourselves. When you look at someone else rushing in late purple and puffing you don’t think “fucks sake lady, you look dreadful - why didn’t you get up earlier/plan better/ why is your arse so massive?” You tend to think “ that sucks, I hope your day gets better”.

IdealisticCynic · 16/08/2023 10:19

My top tip is to find a good tailor. I buy off the peg and relatively inexpensive (but nice) clothes and take them to a tailor who then fits the clothes to my frame (E.g hemlines so they fall flatteringly/ a stitch at the shoulder/a tuck at the waist etc). Perfectly fitting clothes are the key to looking groomed. And it honestly doesn’t cost as much as you think because they are just fitting the clothes, not making them.

MaybeOneAndDone · 16/08/2023 10:20

Foxy1616 · 16/08/2023 10:12

but only if you decide that straight hair is important to you! Why not embrace your curls? Then you don’t need to spend an hour straightening it … what’s important to you?

"Embracing my curls" only leads to me looking good on the day I wash it and put product on it. By day two, I will have frizzy temples and look a mess.

Washing my hair daily can't solve this, as it just dries it out and makes it look straw-like. The only way I could look polished all the time is if I were to straighten it between washes, but that would probably just damage it and make it more dry in the long-term.

I have accepted that, because of my hair type, I look a mess 60% if the time.

TheMousePipes · 16/08/2023 10:20

MaybeOneAndDone · 16/08/2023 10:20

"Embracing my curls" only leads to me looking good on the day I wash it and put product on it. By day two, I will have frizzy temples and look a mess.

Washing my hair daily can't solve this, as it just dries it out and makes it look straw-like. The only way I could look polished all the time is if I were to straighten it between washes, but that would probably just damage it and make it more dry in the long-term.

I have accepted that, because of my hair type, I look a mess 60% if the time.

Silk pillow case. Game changer for second day curls, I promise.

JusthereforXmas · 16/08/2023 10:22

bollytrolly · 16/08/2023 00:02

I've just always been a bit of a mess all my life my appearance no matter how carefully I press my clothes or do my hair or put my make up on by the time I get to where I am going I always look a mess with frizzy hair, clothes all creased and make up sliding off my face. If I have something to go to where I'll be photographed I will end up getting a black eye or a bee will still me on the face. I seem to be so hard on clothes, shoes and socks and everything seems to fall to bits in double quick time even with better brands. People always slag Boris Johnson for looking a mess but I wonder if he is just a male version of me and can't get it right even if he really tries?

I had awful acne as a teen and am still getting spots now at 44 even though I take great care with my skincare, see dermatologists. Other women seem to glide though life, cool calm and collected never a hair out of place, they never seem to sweat or go attend meetings with a large toothpaste stain on their boob that they don't notice until after.

Even with items I remember at school it was always me who got the desk someone had drawn a knob on with black marker or got the ripped books! I remember as a girl I used to think of the other girls as "top girls" you know proper girls who looked nice and did ballet and horse riding lessons and then me who had awful allergies and had snot pouring out my nose half the year!

I just wanted to be a feminine and delicate woman for once in my life but now perimenopause his upon me and all my short comings are just getting worse, chin hair anyone?

Is there some secret women learn as young girls about how to achieve this aura of polish? Is there anyone like me who still has no clue?

I feel like I was waiting to blossom into a swan but failed.

I think a big part of it for me is executive dysfunction... I can't learn routines so leaving the house and going 'fuck, forgot to brush my teeth/hair' is not unusual (I use to carry a toothbrush in my handbag). At least I tend to remember underwear these days lol.

Dispite the fact Im a walking hot mess I was always very skinny (as above I use to forget to eat often) and I know other girls have told me their jealous of that and how I have discovered some secret.

I'm middle aged and I still forget to pee sometimes, its a miracle I haven't been run over and yet some how I'm left in charge of children.

I honestly think most of us probably think other people are doing better than us at something but we likely all just feel like 2 children in a mac pretending to be an adult and hoping we don't get found out.

IdealisticCynic · 16/08/2023 10:22

Oh one other thing - get your eyebrows threaded (takes 5 mins about once a fortnight) and use an eyebrow wand with colour (even the cheap ones are good and it takes 30 seconds) everyday. Your face will always looked better groomed and it is very low effort.

Farmageddon · 16/08/2023 10:22

BlossomCloud · 16/08/2023 10:14

I mean personally I have been very professionally successful despite my inability to look immaculate.

And I promote and recruit in my department based on ability not how shiny someone's hair is.

Ok but for most workplaces there is a basic level of grooming that is required, in fact many places have a dress policy.

For example - If someone turned up for an interview in dirty, unkept clothes, smelling like they hadn't showered in a long time and wearing slippers would you really be able to see past that and hire them?

Most of us aren't super shiny and groomed, but clean and well presented are definitely important.

Isitautumnyet23 · 16/08/2023 10:24

MallardsMoorhensAndLethe · 16/08/2023 03:01

Ok. From the top down.

If you've got hair that's not agreeable to wind or humidity, find an updo that suits both your personality and your clothes. If you wear several vastly different styles of clothes eg a suit to the office and a tracksuit on weekends, you're most probably going to need to master two updo's. Check the weather forecast on waking and if the weather is unfavorable style your hair in the updo. Another note regards hair. If it needs washing daily so you can effectively restyle it, accept this and have it at a length/haircut that doesn't annoy you to do it. Cut off your split ends and if you're having to do that more than a few times a year - use more or better conditioner. Experiment until you find effective styling products including experimenting with the amount needed. They don't need to be expensive. Always carry a clip/hairband/hairbrush or whatever else you need to restyle quickly in an emergency, then no matter what, you avoid looking like a total tramp.

If your makeup slides off...
a) try mattifying skincare as your base.
b) If your skin feels at all tight, it needs moisturising, whatever you're currently using isn't enough. Makeup won't sit well on dehydrated skin.
c) Less is more especially if you don't have makeup skills, as such. Don't try to transform yourself just aim to look like you, but a smidge better.
d) Shape your eyebrows, removing stragglers weekly, a teeny tiny bit of vaseline and brush into place will keep them tidy.
e) Carry powder and use it if you get too shiney, check at least once (lunchtime) and preferably before leaving work too. Carry eyeshadow and reapply if necessary. Carry lip balm, you can use a smear of it it on dry patches, eyebrows, eyelashes too to re-gloss yourself if necessary.
f) If you don't wear makeup at least carry tissues, take one opened out and put it on your face, smooth your face (not wipe it) with the tissue on, it'll absorb excess oil. Works if you're wearing makeup too although a little will come off on the tissue.
g) if you're too red, use a green colour corrector as primer or powder.

Nobody cares if you have wrinkles or peach fluff on your face. But deal with your beard whiskers even if it means going to a salon. Wear sunscreen, skin cancer isn't a good look. Nobody cares if you have body hair (as long as it's not poking through your tights, looking at you Ms History Teacher (mine, not all history teachers!)) but don't have halitosis or BO, find a solution.

If you lose earrings, get the ones with hooks like a U shape that go through your ear and dangle down or the circle ones where the bit that goes through your ear kind of hooks into the other bit. They don't come off so easily as the ones with butterfly backs.

Watch your posture. A lot of looking like a sack of spuds is slumping. Stand in front of a mirror, are you even or slouched to one side? Get treatment if needed and be aware of your posture, correct yourself regularly, it gets to be a habit after a while.

I know you're tired, rushed, stressed, anxious etc but pause for a second and pick your face up. Literally use your face muscles, raise your eyebrows and corners of your mouth like half a cm or something. Look in a mirror and do it so you can see what I mean. You instantly look better and less downtrodden, especially combined with posture. Also smile. Nobody actually has to have resting bitch face, your face can look however you want it to but you have to use your muscles to achieve it, nobody is going to do it for you!

Find the smile that works. Practice in the mirror. If someone points a camera at you, put it on your face. No more pics of you grinning like a psycho, or with a double chin even though you're only size 10.

If you wear glasses get a style and colour that matches your clothes as well as your face.

Wear clothes that fit.
a) If they're rolling up or falling off they don't fit. Maybe you need different fastenings, different necklines, different waistband, different size, different brand or store, different way of doing buttons eg I do middle 3 buttons on a fitted cardigan, other methods and styles of cardigan make me look like a tramp. See also: posture.
b) Experiment, find something that works and stick with it. Fashion comes and goes but if clothes don't suit you, don't hang right etc you're going to look like a bag lady. You are the centre of your life (maybe second after DC). If you can't be bothered to find clothes that fit, there's nothing I can say that will help, except work on your self esteem.
c) If you're not good at matching clothes, forget trying to! Find some outfits that work and wear them on rotation. It's not compulsory to mix and match your clothes, especially if the end result is looking like you got dressed in the dark.
d) Iron clothes that need it, nothing should look crumpled before you put it on, it makes a massive difference.
e) Have an awesome coat that makes you feel a million dollars and suits the style of your clothes as well as your skin tone.
f) If you don't know what your colours are, put them near your face and look in the mirror. If you resemble a corpse that colour isn't for you, if it perks up your skin tone and brightens you then buy it. Your skin tone changes as you age so revisit colours occasionally.

Have your nails painted/unpainted, long or short, but file them so they're neat and carry a nail file for when one snaps or splits.

Regards carrying this and that. You're going to need a bag. One that matches your style. If yours comes from Tesco (other brands of carrier are available) then you may as well accessories with a dog on a string and a twig in your hair. Just don't. If you've got a bag bag and a Tesco bag for the overflow, buy a bigger bag.

Stop rushing, that'll deal with the harried, panicked, wild eyed, out of breath look and sometimes the sweating too. You can sweat from anxiety, so leave "emergency room" in your schedule to avoid being late. If you can't do this, look at how much you're taking on - it's probably too much. Life is for living not for rushing through quickly, there's no pot of gold at the finish line, just a coffin.

Signed: that gawky unfashionable fugly teenager who dressed like a bag lady, but finally figured it out.

Love this 👏🏻

bollytrolly · 16/08/2023 10:25

stbrandonsboat · 16/08/2023 09:35

I think the people saying it is possible to look nice are missing the three things that put a spanner in the works, time, money and temperature. Don't underestimate the power of cheap fabrics combined with overheating to wreck appearance. Plus it takes ages to keep doing hair, makeup, ironing clothes etc.

I do think this is a thing with me, I just run hot and so always end up overheating. I was on an exchange to Finland in the middle of winter and the girl who was with me from the UK fainted it was so cold and was miserable until the weather warmed up a couple of months later while I was in my element and didn't really feel the cold at all. I should move to Svalbard!

OP posts:
AInightingale · 16/08/2023 10:26

Isitautumnyet23 · 16/08/2023 10:11

I didnt want to suggest this to OP but when she said about nothing feeling right, seatbelt straps, temp, being hot and uncomfortable in clothes, that was exactly what I thought.

I remember being in a bookshop looking through a book about girls on the autistic spectrum, and the first sentence I read was, 'the one thing these girls have in common is that their hair is usually a complete mess.' A bit of a nasty sweeping generalisation, but it is true for a lot of us. The sweating i also experience as an anxiety symptom. Women's clothing always seemed like a form of torture to me. I am much happier in a plain t-shirt, trousers and boots. And a nice baggy jumper. Unfortunately, society doesn't approve.

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