Thread 28 Sunak : Lords, Ladies and Lame Ducks

[DuncinToffee]

Previous thread

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/_chat/4835909-thread-27-sunak-the-ship-is-sinking-hold-your-nerve?page=1

Not sure if it was on this thread but someone on MN reminded me they did this last year and changed their minds and reduced it to 50.

As a mark of how much my confidence in the government has changed, last year when they announced it I remember posting at the time they would eventually reduce the age back down to 50. This year I seem to have just assumed they’ll carry on with 64 regardless.

All this would be a moot point if they’d allow you to pay for a covid vaccine.

This has been going on for a long time, the brexit and Corbyn threads were notorious for it.

It is safe to assume that all online sites have paid posters

Plus they do a "Leading" spin off which are in depth interviews with politicians. Mary McAleese one is one of the most fascinating life stories I've ever heard. And George Osborne is interesting too (if enraging) as he is so dogmatic that Austerity was the right thing to do. Listening to Alistair Campbell interviewing him about it was quite squirm inducing.

Anyway I'll shut up now 🤐

Plus they do a "Leading" spin off which are in depth interviews with politicians. Mary McAleese one is one of the most fascinating life stories I've ever heard. And George Osborne is interesting too (if enraging) as he is so dogmatic that Austerity was the right thing to do. Listening to Alistair Campbell interviewing him about it was quite squirm inducing.

Anyway I'll shut up now 🤐

I assumed it was because they were incapable of having a discussion.

Ha! I'll definitely add those episodes to my list.

both those things can be true

I see today’s plan is going to be giving more money to the private sector rather than letting the nhs have it.

To be fair it amounts to the same thing if there’s no capacity in the NHS. Some consultants treated NHS patients privately while on strike.

Several years ago I remember someone on a council?/social housing list in the south east complaining that she would never get a home because migrants were given council/social homes, with the result she wasn't moving up the waiting list. I felt sorry for her. The argument would be that an asylum seeker's need was greater than hers. But it's very difficult for her too.

I watched a documentary about a street in London, filmed over two or three years around the time of the EU membership referendum. Otherwise decent- seeming residents were resentful of overseas buyers pricing them out of their local area. They felt that voting to leave the EU would help with this problem.

One of the many things that struck me when I was watching some of the incessant media coverage of the Bobby Stockholm was that the rooms looked clean and in good, though very basic (decorative) condition. Therefore better than many a private rental property.

What a nasty government we have, encouraging people to think their problems are caused by migrants instead of by a disgraceful housing policy and an incompetent response to dealing with asylum claims.

And what a pity that so many people fall for their nasty, corrupt lines

I posted on the barge thread, in my opinion leaving the EU was a huge contributor to this current situation as it meant we are not part of the Dublin regulation. We left in 2020 and I don't think its coincidence the "small boats" problem has got worse since then.

Rather than address that reasonably, the government are demonising asylum seekers and the right wing press are scaremongering.

I read yesterday that 17,000 immigrants have drowned in the Mediterranean since 2014. I don't understand why the Government persists in saying these are "economic migrants" who need a "deterrent". What higher deterrent is there than death?

I'm not sure they need to be buying branded cereal at 3 times the cost of non branded.

But other than that they should be feeding them the same way as we should be feeding children in poverty and like the plans to roll out breakfast clubs nationally.

Yep. I said something here or another thread recently about how easy they are to spot because of the people they home in on to "attack".

The only defence they have is "but we know you are a Labour supporter". As if that's why we think the story's are failing. And 9 times out of 10 (and certainly IME) it's people like me who aren't party supporters and are centric politically. And the more you say that the more they spout it.

I think it's because it's easier to think peoples issues are the fact it's the Tory party and NOT the fact the party are failing in every which way they possibly can and have failed this country more and more the past 13 years.

The fact that people who actually don't have a general issue with the party or all its politicians currently have an issue with them is more of a threat than someone who would never be a Tory supporter. Iyswim?

Definitely paid, probably by the word in tribute to their Dickensian view of society. Won't hold my breath for the first 3 volumes of the collected works.

They've said they are doing this?!

So their solution to the bed shortage is give a load of elderly people a choice of 2 illnesses that may hospitalise them? 🤦‍♀️

Yes, they’re doing it. I think calling 50 to 64 year olds elderly is pushing it a bit though. 😂

In terms of who the deranged posters target, I see it as a badge of honour that I infuriate them so much. And @jgw1 gets under their skin so brilliantly I’m in total awe.

Us blossoms that was a bad description 😳 I wouldn't even describe my 73 yo dad as elderly!!!

I guess they've done a cost risk analysis of people that age needing hospital care for flu Vs cost of those that do?

Any news on whether that tends to all under 65's or only those who don't have risk factors? For sample my 18yo ds has it because he has a neurological condition and I bet it as his main carer.

Luckily I'm in a position to pay if it remains at £15 a jab but I do worry they'll reduce those entitled under nhs and then ramp up costs.

@itsgettingweird

Do you think it's easier for people to think people rather than the government are the issue? Because they've previously voted conservative and don't want to think they were wrong and therefore partly reap for the current situation?

Also. All those polls asking for views about the effectiveness on policies designed to deter migrants. How on earth are ordinary members of the public meant to know all the ins and outs of migration? Such loaded questions.

Jabs for under 65s only if immune compromised. DH has always had flu jab so this is new criteria.

But even with loaded questions they only get 11% support.

I think some people are very primal in their personalities.

The same way you get people who are very stuck on one football (or any sports) team and support them whatever.

I do think there's some element of blaming others for their opinions against the party rather than the party itself as self defence iyswim? I I think it's defence against the party to justify why they vote for them as much as (in some cases) genuinely believing they are the best and so being able to look past the faults and mistakes because they aren't going to change party.

I know a few avid Tory voters (friends and colleagues) who can only counter with "but Labour will be worse" when faced with facts.

I find the psychology around it nightly interesting.

I think you're right @itsgettingweird . I've never lived in a conservative constituency but there's a lot of Scottish people who absolute love Nicola Sturgeon and blame absolutely everything on the Uk gov.

Plenty of people find it impossible to ever admit they ever get things wrong.

Some posters do seem to have an aversion to facts.

I live in what used to be the safest Tory constituency in the country. There’s a hard core that clings on but even here it’s changing. Labour was second in 2019 and the majority has decreased in every GE since 2010. We even have a Labour mayor! I can feel the tide turning and that’s why it’s so frustrating that they’re clinging on like shit on a blanket.

I live in a Tory stronghold.

Bravermans constituency in fact 🙄

There are some who love her even when she is being racist, xenophobic and down right vile. Purely on the basis that we do need to stop the boats.

They can't see that many of us also want people traffickers to stop cashing in on peoples desperation - if you question the methods you are a Labour supporter, or Labour would be worse or any of the other responses we see here.

As a country we seem to have become more partisan.

You either agree or you don't. People have stopped seeing and discussing nuances and attack each other.

Same here. Braverman had 68% of the vote in 2019.

It's predicted she'll have a 3.8% majority at the next one. And that's partly due to them rigging it through boundary changes!