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Original poster

Omg I had enough

286 replies

271726a · 14/07/2023 22:42

May Need to scan my other threads for this to make sense.

So there is a social worker involved due to my sons violence/aggression.

It has been said there are no worries about my other children although I did allow social worker to talk to the younger kids . And the school. They have no concern.

Now I just had the social worker email me about an hour ago . Asking me about my younger kids Jabs . Questioning me why I have not had them done and telling me i have a week to sort it. Now by law I don't have to have them done and as a parent I don't have to . But yet there they trying to force it .

To be honest I don't feel overly strong either way. I can't even remember why I did not. I had Been in temporary accommodation and then covid etc so possibly slipped my mind. So it's not the end of the world for me to sort it. What I don't like is the demands of doing it by next week. And the over the top interference of my children. When its Been agreed thus is about my 16 year old.

When we had TAC meeting a few days ago my younger children were not even mentioned. It's like they never existed.

I honestly have enough to cope with

Anyway if there are any social workers here or who l lws the system can you please explain this to me?

Just to add this is not a jab debate and I will ignore any attempts to turn it into one.

OP posts:
SkinnyMalinkyLankyLegs · 15/07/2023 11:17

OP, no, social services can't make you get your kids vaccinated if they are under your care.

DogFord · 15/07/2023 11:17

So, have your children never had any illnesses where you have felt the need for medical advice, over the phone, even as reassurance as a first time parent not used to dealing with an ill baby or child?

It is just very hard to imagine, especially with multiple DC.

Even without a specific health condition, children get do ill, especially in the first years of school and nursery and, based on having multiple DC myself, have normal childhood illnesses or issues in their earlier years that can include (and this isn’t exclusively):

A very high temperature that isn’t going down, a cough that is so hacking/with temp that you worry that it might be an infection, random rashes, chest infections/ear infections/tonsillitis, viral infections that appear quite alarming if you have a floppy, hot and pale child, bronchiolitis, croup - which is scary if they wake up in the night and you haven’t heard the cough before, a very bad D and V bug with a very young DC where you have been worried because they have stopped drinking and couldn’t keep water down, scarlet fever… the list goes on, particularly with 3 of them being exposed to different things.

So either your DC have never ever been ill, not one of them, or they have been unwell and you haven’t once ever been bothered enough to want to speak to a dr or nurse?

Bearing in mind that your DC are unvaccinated so you have more potential illnesses to consider.

tidalway · 15/07/2023 11:24

This reply has been deleted

This has been deleted by MNHQ for breaking our Talk Guidelines.

DustyLee123 · 15/07/2023 11:45

Jellycatspyjamas · 15/07/2023 10:49

No they can’t force it, but if the children become looked after then they will be done. Not sure at what point the parent has no say in it, but there is a certain point where that kicks in.

This is inaccurate, looked after children won’t have vaccinations done without parental consent. Parents still retain parental rights if their children are in care - only if parental rights are removed by court can the local authority make those decisions for children and the OP is a very long way from that.

@Ds16dv while social work involvement is focussed on your older son, they will look to build a general picture of all children in the home. Could you imagine the outcry if social work focussed on one child, didn’t assess the other children and something harmful happened to one of them?

While the manager has said there are no concerns about your younger children, you’ve also mentioned things that will mean they look more closely eg not having children vaccinated with no real reason why not, not being registered with a GP (reliance on things like walk in centres isn’t great because there’s no consistent oversight of the children’s health). It’s not unusual for neglectful and abusive parents to use a number of different health care providers because it’s much more difficult to build a coherent picture of injures, illnesses etc. Not letting the social worker see where the children are sleeping (it’s not unheard of for the home to look ok in public areas while children either don’t have somewhere to sleep or are sleeping in filthy conditions).

As workers we don’t know the parents who are a bit disorganised, those who are generally struggling with parenting and those who are actively harmful. We need to build a picture using what we know about what can point to difficulties in parenting. Each issue on their own may not give pause for thought but taken together the picture starts to look worrying.

Social work is intrusive, it needs to be. We question parenting decisions and background information to build a picture of the general care of all the children in the home. The more you’re able to work with social work the quicker we’re out of your life, the more you prevaricate the more we think there’s something we’re missing.

You can’t be forced to vaccinate your children, just say you’re choosing not to at this stage. But make it an intentional choice rather than something you’ve just not got found to because that makes us think what else have you just not got round to in your care for your kids, and then we need to look.

This is incorrect. In my job I have been tasked by SW’s to vaccinate children.

Andylippy1 · 15/07/2023 12:07

Social care cannot force jabs. As a parent you need to explain clearly why you haven't had them done or don't want them doing. It is your choice but you need to be clear in your justification of this decision. They can then record it on the system.

Re new gp I would take a bill of your address ID to the surgery and ask them what other ID you may need. Do you have a driving licence with photo?

TAC is a meeting around 1 child not several children in a family.

Eviebeans · 15/07/2023 12:44

bellac11 · 15/07/2023 09:22

Im amazed that any manager/social worker would have said that the issues with your son dont involve or dont affect your other children

When families are open to services its good practice to assess the whole family, children dont live within a family in isolation, they have relationships and dynamics with all the other family members and vice versa. A good assessment will look at the parenting and the needs of all the children even if the parents arent asking for help with that particular child.

Your other children should be part of the assessments even if it didnt lead to them being subject to any plans (whether CP or CHIN)

from what I’ve seen if one child is of interest/concern then all children in the family are looked at. Children are not raised in a vacuum and if something has had an impact on one child of the family then it’s not unreasonable to make sure that it isn’t having an impact on all of them.

Jellycatspyjamas · 15/07/2023 12:45

This is incorrect. In my job I have been tasked by SW’s to vaccinate children.

The social worker will have obtained consent from the parent, unless the parent has lost parental rights through the court process. Legally social work has no power to arrange vaccination of children in care without parental consent and would leave themselves open to assault charges if vaccination is done without that consent.

Frith2013 · 15/07/2023 12:49

It's a sign of neglect.

Book the appointments and get it done.

Herewego81 · 15/07/2023 12:53

Frith2013 · 15/07/2023 12:49

It's a sign of neglect.

Book the appointments and get it done.

Exactly

this is extensive and prolonged social work involvement

we are hardly going to get the most objective perspective from the parent at the heart of the involvement

FedUpMumof10YO · 15/07/2023 12:54

I don't think you should be told what to do re vaccinations. It is your choice. But if you don't have strong objections to getting them done, I'd sort as soon as you have GP in place.

You could reply to SW and say it's on your list. Maybe enlist her help with GP?

AutumnCrow · 15/07/2023 13:27

Thanks @overdogged and @Jellycatspyjamas for the answers around ID and registering with a GP.

Really helpful. I wonder if MNHQ might consider an info page or a 'stickied' post/thread on it. I might suggest it.

And thanks, @Ds16dv for raising it. Hope you get sorted out and good luck Flowers

ReeseWitherfork · 15/07/2023 13:36

DogFord · 15/07/2023 11:17

So, have your children never had any illnesses where you have felt the need for medical advice, over the phone, even as reassurance as a first time parent not used to dealing with an ill baby or child?

It is just very hard to imagine, especially with multiple DC.

Even without a specific health condition, children get do ill, especially in the first years of school and nursery and, based on having multiple DC myself, have normal childhood illnesses or issues in their earlier years that can include (and this isn’t exclusively):

A very high temperature that isn’t going down, a cough that is so hacking/with temp that you worry that it might be an infection, random rashes, chest infections/ear infections/tonsillitis, viral infections that appear quite alarming if you have a floppy, hot and pale child, bronchiolitis, croup - which is scary if they wake up in the night and you haven’t heard the cough before, a very bad D and V bug with a very young DC where you have been worried because they have stopped drinking and couldn’t keep water down, scarlet fever… the list goes on, particularly with 3 of them being exposed to different things.

So either your DC have never ever been ill, not one of them, or they have been unwell and you haven’t once ever been bothered enough to want to speak to a dr or nurse?

Bearing in mind that your DC are unvaccinated so you have more potential illnesses to consider.

Did you miss the bit where OP says they did have a GP but have moved and now need to register at a new one?

AutumnCrow · 15/07/2023 13:45

ReeseWitherfork · 15/07/2023 13:36

Did you miss the bit where OP says they did have a GP but have moved and now need to register at a new one?

Show quote history

Exactly. She was in temporary accommodation, moved, now has to re-register with a GP. She knows this. Life is hard for her. Her 16 son is abusing her. She needs help and support, not chastisement.

An email at 9.40pm on a Friday with a one-week time-frame attached isn't especially helpful for anyone, least of all one that requires contact to be made with a GP surgery, unless an offer of assistance is also part of the offer. Maybe it was, maybe it wasn't. The OP knows now that she can ask. She doesn't have to do everything alone - she's allowed to ask for help without that being held against her.

She can say, 'don't rush me - I'm not even registered yet, having trouble there. Any chance you can help out?'

Issue solved.

Original poster
271726a · 15/07/2023 15:46

Things seem to have settled abit now so I'm going to explain a few general bits.

So social services become involved recently due to my son being violent and aggressive to me . He's 16 years old 6ft 4. This has gone on for a long time and I was begging other professionals for help for my son. I was banging my head against the wall . Things reached a head when he was violent and aggressive towards and threw a full bottle 300ml of hand wash at me. He threw it with force and it really hurt.

This was the last straw for me and I kicked him out . He stayed at his sisters this could only ever be temporary. So I asked for my son to be placed under section 20 . Which was refused. They wanted him back home . And sod the effect its had on my other children. We have to work with social services to keep him at home even though its classed as domestic violence.

Now he's back home there's not even a,safety plan put in place. Yes they are going to sort out a course for DV for my son. And family therapy. But no safety plan and are happy to have a violent 16 year old in my home .

Yet they want to take control and nag over stuff that by law is actually my choice.

Now I have felt extremely pressured by this social worker. I have been doing my garden completely on my own . It was a massive job. I also had a massive ikea unit which is wall to wall ceiling to floor . Apart from a few inches . So there were loads of boxes/packaging etc . I done this on my own to.

Also had old toys that the kids had broken , old clothes, that had got damaged worm etc . My son broke his bed . So there was that as well plus I had to smash up 2 old sofas .

I had been doing loads . But things halted a bit when I got ill with a really horrible cough bug. Which was effecting my breathing and I kept chucking up when I was coughing and felt like my throat was being stabbed. I felt awful. I was literally checking up and pissing myself at the same time . So this delayed things a bit.

So I needed to hire a skip . My intention was to get everything completely sorted and get rid all at once. But because the social worker overly pressured me about seeing the kids bedrooms (actual rooms were ok) it was just the landing area that were crap due to stuff waiting to come down the stairs for when I hired skip. Because of the pressure I felt. I had to hire the skip before I was ready for it and at a bad time as money was short . Not awful but still not a good time.

So I end up paying 220 for this skip. Which time all my other bills /,food Came out . Plus I had to buy stuff for my daughter camping trip. All this had kept me short of money because of the pressure put on me. I basically needed to delay it until Tuesday coming when money is better. But I could not because of the pressure I was getting.

It's DD birthday tomorrow. She will be 13. I do have her a few items that she's asked for. But I feel so fucking guilty. We normally . Have a family meal out . And mum daughter shopping trip. Together. But because I had to pay out for the skip . We now can't do that. So dd is missing out abd its what she's always known.

This same social worker does not actually listen to anything. She to busy typing. She tells half story's/half information. She's tell me one this ds different things or half's. Me , adult dd, and my son touch base and realise we have all been told different things or half things. Or different versions. I things have been twisted.

She is having a massive negative effect on us and actually making things worse and not helping at all .

Abd I have spend ages typing this and forgot the point of my post .

OP posts:
Frith2013 · 15/07/2023 16:17

There are some problems that you are encountering or that SS can see that can be solved very quickly.

I'd do those and make a list to show you're not being obstructive.

Phone the GP surgery or sign up online.
Book the vaccinations (you said you're not adverse to the idea)
Sign up for a citizens card.

Get a few of these tasks ticked off your list!

danni0509 · 15/07/2023 16:21

I feel sorry for OP. Rightly or wrongly regarding the jabs. They aren’t compulsory. Social worker sounds a bit of a jobsworth, she can recommend that you get them done, understandably, but she cannot give you a weeks deadline, they aren’t mandatory. Your younger children aren’t on any plan, she doesn’t have the final say.

(Personally in your situation I would get them done just to avoid any further aggravation, because you sound like you have enough on your plate without the added stress etc) but it’s your choice at the end of the day.

I sympathise regarding your son. I’ve got a violent 9 year old, (since this morning I couldn’t tell you how many times I’ve been hit and kicked and had things thrown at me)

He goes to a challenging behaviour school, on a combination of meds, sees CAMHS regularly.

Child to parent violence isn’t spoken about enough, it’s horrible and there isn’t any relief, if my dh did it I could divorce, get away, when it’s your child you are trapped in an abusive relationship really. Flowers

Also regarding id for the drs, do you have any benefit letters, CAMHS letters, dla letters, anything like bank statements, anything at all with your address on, take that into the gp, they should understand not everyone has photo I’d.

misssunshine4040 · 15/07/2023 16:31

271726a · 15/07/2023 15:46

Things seem to have settled abit now so I'm going to explain a few general bits.

So social services become involved recently due to my son being violent and aggressive to me . He's 16 years old 6ft 4. This has gone on for a long time and I was begging other professionals for help for my son. I was banging my head against the wall . Things reached a head when he was violent and aggressive towards and threw a full bottle 300ml of hand wash at me. He threw it with force and it really hurt.

This was the last straw for me and I kicked him out . He stayed at his sisters this could only ever be temporary. So I asked for my son to be placed under section 20 . Which was refused. They wanted him back home . And sod the effect its had on my other children. We have to work with social services to keep him at home even though its classed as domestic violence.

Now he's back home there's not even a,safety plan put in place. Yes they are going to sort out a course for DV for my son. And family therapy. But no safety plan and are happy to have a violent 16 year old in my home .

Yet they want to take control and nag over stuff that by law is actually my choice.

Now I have felt extremely pressured by this social worker. I have been doing my garden completely on my own . It was a massive job. I also had a massive ikea unit which is wall to wall ceiling to floor . Apart from a few inches . So there were loads of boxes/packaging etc . I done this on my own to.

Also had old toys that the kids had broken , old clothes, that had got damaged worm etc . My son broke his bed . So there was that as well plus I had to smash up 2 old sofas .

I had been doing loads . But things halted a bit when I got ill with a really horrible cough bug. Which was effecting my breathing and I kept chucking up when I was coughing and felt like my throat was being stabbed. I felt awful. I was literally checking up and pissing myself at the same time . So this delayed things a bit.

So I needed to hire a skip . My intention was to get everything completely sorted and get rid all at once. But because the social worker overly pressured me about seeing the kids bedrooms (actual rooms were ok) it was just the landing area that were crap due to stuff waiting to come down the stairs for when I hired skip. Because of the pressure I felt. I had to hire the skip before I was ready for it and at a bad time as money was short . Not awful but still not a good time.

So I end up paying 220 for this skip. Which time all my other bills /,food Came out . Plus I had to buy stuff for my daughter camping trip. All this had kept me short of money because of the pressure put on me. I basically needed to delay it until Tuesday coming when money is better. But I could not because of the pressure I was getting.

It's DD birthday tomorrow. She will be 13. I do have her a few items that she's asked for. But I feel so fucking guilty. We normally . Have a family meal out . And mum daughter shopping trip. Together. But because I had to pay out for the skip . We now can't do that. So dd is missing out abd its what she's always known.

This same social worker does not actually listen to anything. She to busy typing. She tells half story's/half information. She's tell me one this ds different things or half's. Me , adult dd, and my son touch base and realise we have all been told different things or half things. Or different versions. I things have been twisted.

She is having a massive negative effect on us and actually making things worse and not helping at all .

Abd I have spend ages typing this and forgot the point of my post .

I really feel for you op. You sound like you are struggling and trying to keep the plate's spinning.
I think you need to explain this to the social worker as much as possible and ask them for reasons why they want certain things done.
Don't be passive, explain your side and ask her for reasons and outcomes.
You sound like you are in a vulnerable place

justanothernamechangemonday · 15/07/2023 16:40

If your children haven't got a GP or jabs, you are being negligent. You need to just get it done. It isn't hard.

Original poster
271726a · 15/07/2023 16:45

Frith2013 · 15/07/2023 16:17

There are some problems that you are encountering or that SS can see that can be solved very quickly.

I'd do those and make a list to show you're not being obstructive.

Phone the GP surgery or sign up online.
Book the vaccinations (you said you're not adverse to the idea)
Sign up for a citizens card.

Get a few of these tasks ticked off your list!

Last night/this morning
I filled in an on line form . Took me ages . I just loaded my gas bill. I done same with my children. Put my gas bill on their application. I'm so stupid I did not think to load the birth certificates . I'm hoping they will make contact abd just ask for them.

I have been told so many different things from gp receptions. 1 was I ( must have photo id) another has been I must know our nhs numbers before I can register. This was from 2 different GPS. My old gp told me they had deregistered us. So I had been struggling because of the stuff I had been told. It turned out I had been deregistered but My kids had not but I spent ages thinking they had been. Anyway nkw looking in line etc I have now found out I have been fed crap .

I just hope my applications are accepted.

OP posts:
Boomboom22 · 15/07/2023 16:49

You can just Google nhs number and find it with your date of birth, name and address last registered. It will make it easier to do online forms.

Moonsun88 · 15/07/2023 16:53

Just state it's not against the law and you'll seek legal advice. If it's a problem then don't use you as a scapegoat and check every household in the UK and go after them too. Also, make sure it's all recorded. They are there to make sure children are safe. If you do want to get the jabs do so but it's not a legal requirement and this is where social services fail and miss the real abuse.

misssunshine4040 · 15/07/2023 17:00

justanothernamechangemonday · 15/07/2023 16:40

If your children haven't got a GP or jabs, you are being negligent. You need to just get it done. It isn't hard.

Her kids do have a go

misssunshine4040 · 15/07/2023 17:00

GP*

Herewego81 · 15/07/2023 17:04

Op

have younger children had any jabs? If the ones at 8 weeks? 6 weeks? 2 years old?