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Original poster

Ex requesting birth certificates

200 replies

gallina · 12/07/2023 19:05

My ex is leaving the country (UK) to move back to his home country (EU)

He is leaving this week although won't tell me a date. He is pressuring me for copies of the children's birth certificates.

Is there any reason why I should refrain from giving him a copy?

They are 2 and 1 years and don't have passports yet.

I'll give him a copy to keep the peace if there's nothing he could really do with it, but don't want to willingly hand it over if I'm opening myself up for him to try and take the children

Feeling pretty broken so appreciate any replies

OP posts:
Thread gallery
6
Oceanus · 13/07/2023 11:15

@SeatonCarew People are either entitled to a nationality through birth or they are not (...) but the fact that they have not been recorded since birth in that country's system has no bearing on their eligibility. I never said they had to be recorded since birth but meeting all the criteria in the law for something this important doesn't mean they're automatically given it. In the case of somebody born abroad somebody would need to check all the requirements are indeed met and it's not a fraudulent claim. Passports, residencies, nationalities, these are things that are worth big bucks. Look at all them dinghies crossing the channel.
As for being entitled at birth or not to a certain nationality I think it really depends on the country and it couldn't be further from black and white. This is from 2017 but it's still interesting: https://www.economist.com/the-economist-explains/2017/07/09/what-is-the-difference-between-nationality-and-citizenship

What is the difference between nationality and citizenship?

The two concepts are closely related but not quite the same

https://www.economist.com/the-economist-explains/2017/07/09/what-is-the-difference-between-nationality-and-citizenship

VitoCorleoneOfMNMafia · 13/07/2023 12:39

Oceanus · 13/07/2023 08:00

@VitoCorleoneOfMNMafia Look up something called "The Register Of Foreign Births". If you can prove that you have an Irish parent but were born abroad, you can pay £££ to be added to that register and get an Irish passport without ever setting foot on the Emerald Isle.
This makes sense to me. You'd need to register somewhere the first time before applying for a passport. A bureaucrat somewhere has to oficially declare you Irish first.

An upthread poster reminds me that if your parent is Irish and was born on Irish soil, you don't even need to register. You send a copy of your Irish parent's birth cert off with your docs to the Irish passport people. The Register of Foreign Births is only for people who cannot do that.

Readyplayerthr33 · 13/07/2023 12:42

Why is he even asking you? He can order and pay for his own copies.

Just tell him to order and pay for his own copies as this has nothing to do with you. And get passport applications in today so you have those and he can’t get them done himself and hold the passports hostage.

Ilikejamtarts · 13/07/2023 13:03

Don't hand them over and get passports sorted ASAP. My exs mum tried this one when i was a young, nieve 17 year old first time mum leaving the Ex due to DV. They are Cypriot and she had every intentions of taking my son which she admitted when the police ended up involved.
Don't take any chances where your children are concerned

Agapornis · 13/07/2023 15:36

Can't believe how many people here seem to think Ireland, the Netherlands, and various other EU countries all have exactly the same citizenship/nationality/passport laws Hmm THEY DO NOT.
@gallina please make sure you get legal advice that is specific to UK-NL relations.

Original poster
gallina · 13/07/2023 16:45

Just a quick update as I'm not dealing with the stress very well.

Have instructed a solicitor wheels are in motion for a prohibitive steps order and an injunction.

Thanks again for taking the time to advise me, appreciate it

OP posts:
TonTonMacoute · 13/07/2023 16:51

It could just be rude to wind you up OP, but I’m glad you are taking no chances.

You might try contacting the Dutch Embassy to ask about the possibility of your ex being able to get passports for the DCs - or get your solicitor to do it.

Lastusernamecantthinkofanotherone · 13/07/2023 17:33

Agapornis · 13/07/2023 15:36

Can't believe how many people here seem to think Ireland, the Netherlands, and various other EU countries all have exactly the same citizenship/nationality/passport laws Hmm THEY DO NOT.
@gallina please make sure you get legal advice that is specific to UK-NL relations.

Nobody has said they do.

i was using Ireland (as it’s the one I know about) as an example for a pp who had said you can’t automatically be a citizen of a country you weren’t born in. You can.

I did say though I did not know if Dutch citizenship was the same.

PTSDBarbiegirl · 13/07/2023 17:59

Only give supervised access before he leaves.

onefinemess · 13/07/2023 18:06

They are his children too. Why do you have more rights than him?

If he wants his children to live with him (that seems to be what people are implying) then surely that's something you must be open to discussing.

The children are not the OP's sole property.

He could equally accuse the OP of trying to "take" his children.

The double standards on here are astonishing.

Iamclearlyamug · 13/07/2023 18:29

onefinemess · 13/07/2023 18:06

They are his children too. Why do you have more rights than him?

If he wants his children to live with him (that seems to be what people are implying) then surely that's something you must be open to discussing.

The children are not the OP's sole property.

He could equally accuse the OP of trying to "take" his children.

The double standards on here are astonishing.

Oh behave, if the children were born in the UK and have always lived in the UK, what gives him the right to decide they should up sticks away from everything they've ever known and move to his country.

Especially if he's never even had them overnight or done any proper care of them! Plus, there's been a history of DV. In this situation, damn straight, the mother should have more rights! Thank god the law doesn't appear to agree with you and the wheels are in motion for a PSO

VitoCorleoneOfMNMafia · 13/07/2023 18:40

onefinemess · 13/07/2023 18:06

They are his children too. Why do you have more rights than him?

If he wants his children to live with him (that seems to be what people are implying) then surely that's something you must be open to discussing.

The children are not the OP's sole property.

He could equally accuse the OP of trying to "take" his children.

The double standards on here are astonishing.

The Hague Convention concerning child abduction prohibits a person from moving children from the country where they normally live to another country without the consent of both parents. The children live here.

GETTINGLIKEMYMOTHER · 13/07/2023 18:46

What @poshme said.
I’d apply for British passports for them asap, so he won’t be able to.

I don’t think I’d give him birth certificates. If he wants them badly enough, he can get copies.
Have you asked why he wants them?

GETTINGLIKEMYMOTHER · 13/07/2023 18:48

Yes, @VitoCorleoneOfMNMafia , but in some countries they don’t give a shit about Hague conventions. What the father wants will be paramount.

VitoCorleoneOfMNMafia · 13/07/2023 18:59

GETTINGLIKEMYMOTHER · 13/07/2023 18:48

Yes, @VitoCorleoneOfMNMafia , but in some countries they don’t give a shit about Hague conventions. What the father wants will be paramount.

I'm well aware that Iraq, amongst other countries, is not a signatory. The Netherlands is.

VitoCorleoneOfMNMafia · 13/07/2023 19:00

I found some useful looking Govt advice @gallina in case you didn't already see it. https://www.gov.uk/guidance/international-parental-child-abduction#preventing-parental-child-abduction

liveforsummer · 13/07/2023 19:13

GETTINGLIKEMYMOTHER · 13/07/2023 18:48

Yes, @VitoCorleoneOfMNMafia , but in some countries they don’t give a shit about Hague conventions. What the father wants will be paramount.

Thankfully the Netherlands isn't one of them!

nobodysdaughternow · 13/07/2023 19:23

gallina · 13/07/2023 16:45

Just a quick update as I'm not dealing with the stress very well.

Have instructed a solicitor wheels are in motion for a prohibitive steps order and an injunction.

Thanks again for taking the time to advise me, appreciate it

Ty are doing great. If his family have had. To come and bring him home, he is probably unable to organise his own flight tickets and look after himself.

Take heart from the fact that abducting the kids would take a lot of planning and organisation and he is a shambles of a man.

Given there has been dv, I would advise you to take a holiday elsewhere and block his number. A violent man cannot be a decent Father, the children need to be with you.

Original poster
gallina · 13/07/2023 19:43

onefinemess · 13/07/2023 18:06

They are his children too. Why do you have more rights than him?

If he wants his children to live with him (that seems to be what people are implying) then surely that's something you must be open to discussing.

The children are not the OP's sole property.

He could equally accuse the OP of trying to "take" his children.

The double standards on here are astonishing.

I have more rights than him as I have been the sole caregiver to these children since birth.

And also, because I am not an abusive bully who will strangle a woman infront of eldest child whilst pregnant with the youngest.

That's why I have more rights.

OP posts:
VitoCorleoneOfMNMafia · 13/07/2023 19:55

And also, because I am not an abusive bully who will strangle a woman infront of eldest child whilst pregnant with the youngest.

I hope the ferry door hits his arse really hard on his way out and knocks him into the sea.

Good luck OP. I'm sure that you will be OK though, you are already getting things in motion to protect your DCs.

thisisasurvivor · 13/07/2023 19:57

Quote :

And also, because I am not an abusive bully who will strangle a woman infront of eldest child whilst pregnant with the youngest.

That's why I have more rights.

Blood
Is boiling !!!!!

Please tell me you now no longer communicate directly with him??

This is just awful !!!!

Hope he slips on ferry and is never seen again
There I said it

Original poster
gallina · 13/07/2023 20:12

Thank you,

Unfortunately I have had direct contact with him which is usually via text message.

Which reminds me to change my contact number

OP posts:
Oceanus · 13/07/2023 20:15

I'm glad you've taken steps to keep your children safe OP. We should hope for the best but plan for the worst, which is what you've done. It doesn't mean it will come into fruition but, worst case scenario, you're prepared. You've made a chess move and he doesn't know it, so it would end badly for him should he make the wrong move here. Sleep tight tonight and relax, you're ahead of him and your kids are and will be safe from him.

Original poster
gallina · 13/07/2023 20:18

Thank you @Oceanus

The advice I received here has helped me a lot so far. Going to have a read through of the links to try and get as much information in as possible.

Had another text message from him at 8pm asking me to drop them off for a bit!!!

I've turned read receipts off so I can see what hes said without him knowing and I don't need to respond, I have a feeling they are leaving tomorrow.

OP posts:
Oceanus · 13/07/2023 20:30

8 pm is pretty late to be sorting out an outing anywhere. Surely as your kids are so young they go to bed early so your phone's off while you read them a story?
I understand your worry. I was you not so long ago. You've got the advantage of knowing he'll be gone soon, just ignore him for now. PS: what a prick asking for them to be dropped off instead of coming to them! Once a prick, always a prick!