Page 6 | Ex requesting birth certificates

gallina · 2023-07-12T18:05:48+00:00

My ex is leaving the country (UK) to move back to his home country (EU) He is leaving this week although won't tell me a date. He is pressuring me for copies of the children's birth certificates. Is there any reason why I should refrain from giving him a copy? They are 2 and 1 years and don't have passports yet. I'll give him a copy to keep the peace if there's nothing he could really do with it, but don't want to willingly hand it over if I'm opening myself up for him to try and take the children Feeling pretty broken so appreciate any replies

VitoCorleoneOfMNMafia · 13/07/2023 03:49

Oceanus · 13/07/2023 02:16

@Lastusernamecantthinkofanotherone I can't think of a single country who grants their passport to people from other countries willy nilly. I would be more inclined to believe one of your parents informed the Irish embassy/consulate back in the day and somebody somewhere put your name into a database somewhere or your Irish parent had to fill in a form somewhere and wrote down your name. Otherwise how would Ireland know you even exist let alone your actual name? I do believe you think it happened that way though. If you were while the UK was in the EU that might be explain it but I still think you'd need to go through a process before legally being able to say you are an Irish citizen because it's not true (this my subjective opinion mind you) unless your name's in their database somewhere.
ahhhh somebody's telling me nationality and citizenship can mean different things depending on country!

Look up something called "The Register Of Foreign Births". If you can prove that you have an Irish parent but were born abroad, you can pay £££ to be added to that register and get an Irish passport without ever setting foot on the Emerald Isle.

Lastusernamecantthinkofanotherone · 13/07/2023 04:00

VitoCorleoneOfMNMafia · 13/07/2023 03:49

Look up something called "The Register Of Foreign Births". If you can prove that you have an Irish parent but were born abroad, you can pay £££ to be added to that register and get an Irish passport without ever setting foot on the Emerald Isle.

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still not correct.

if you are born abroad to an Irish citizen who was born in Ireland, you are an Irish citizen from birth.

no need to register anything. Same as with a Uk passport, you send off your birth certificate with parents details and get a passport.

if you were born abroad to an Irish citizen who was not born in Ireland, then you don’t have automatic citizenship. You must apply to the foreign births register, once you are on that you become a citizen and can apply for a passport.

so I was born a citizen, but my children must apply to the FBR if they want citizenship.

VitoCorleoneOfMNMafia · 13/07/2023 04:13

Lastusernamecantthinkofanotherone · 13/07/2023 04:00

still not correct.

if you are born abroad to an Irish citizen who was born in Ireland, you are an Irish citizen from birth.

no need to register anything. Same as with a Uk passport, you send off your birth certificate with parents details and get a passport.

if you were born abroad to an Irish citizen who was not born in Ireland, then you don’t have automatic citizenship. You must apply to the foreign births register, once you are on that you become a citizen and can apply for a passport.

so I was born a citizen, but my children must apply to the FBR if they want citizenship.

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I cannot recommend enough that they do that (or you do that for them), now that we are post-Brexit. My mother is doing that now and there was much wailing and gnashing of teeth when I discovered that I had Irish-born great grandparents who had children only after they arrived in Blighty.

Flatandhappy · 13/07/2023 04:16

Please get some proper legal advice around this OP, there is some very wrong information being given to you here.

MayMi · 13/07/2023 04:30

Just so you know, for someone (even one of the parents) takes a child abroad without the consent of the (other) parent, that is considered international kidnap under UK law.

More information here:
www.gov.uk/guidance/international-parental-child-abduction

It seems like he might try to use the birth certificates to get non-UK passports, or maybe kids' visa application etc for his home country as others were saying.

SeatonCarew · 13/07/2023 05:16

Oceanus · 13/07/2023 02:16

@Lastusernamecantthinkofanotherone I can't think of a single country who grants their passport to people from other countries willy nilly. I would be more inclined to believe one of your parents informed the Irish embassy/consulate back in the day and somebody somewhere put your name into a database somewhere or your Irish parent had to fill in a form somewhere and wrote down your name. Otherwise how would Ireland know you even exist let alone your actual name? I do believe you think it happened that way though. If you were while the UK was in the EU that might be explain it but I still think you'd need to go through a process before legally being able to say you are an Irish citizen because it's not true (this my subjective opinion mind you) unless your name's in their database somewhere.
ahhhh somebody's telling me nationality and citizenship can mean different things depending on country!

@Oceanus this is incorrect. People are either entitled to a nationality through birth or they are not. In some circumstances they will need to follow a process to establish their eligibility for a second passport, but the fact that they have not been recorded since birth in that country's system has no bearing on their eligibility. I have a DC with dual nationality.

LiquoriceAllsorts2 · 13/07/2023 05:25

He probably needs to register them in the Netherlands as his children and needs the birth certificates to do this (I think it will be a legal requirement for him).

He could apply for Dutch passports for them in addition to them having British ones. Given they are entitled to eu passports it is probably nice for them to get them and easier to do whilst younger.

it doesn’t mean he wants to steal them but probably good to have a discussion with him and find out the intentions and set some plan in place with him.

LiquoriceAllsorts2 · 13/07/2023 05:27

MrsCarson · 12/07/2023 19:50

Yes my friends Dh is Dutch and never got his US citizenship because of this.

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You can in some circumstances and having parents of two different nationalities is one of them

LiquoriceAllsorts2 · 13/07/2023 05:28

madeleine85 · 12/07/2023 19:42

I'm the second one to say this here, but my sister married a Dutch guy, they both live in another country now and she is a citizen, he is not, as you cannot have a Dutch passport and the passport of another country. Apply for the UK one ASAP if that matters to you, otherwise it could be hard to get.

You can, the children will be able to have both British and Dutch.

Sparklfairy · 13/07/2023 05:30

madeleine85 · 12/07/2023 19:42

I'm the second one to say this here, but my sister married a Dutch guy, they both live in another country now and she is a citizen, he is not, as you cannot have a Dutch passport and the passport of another country. Apply for the UK one ASAP if that matters to you, otherwise it could be hard to get.

Yes I was going to say this. When I was a child my DM applied for UK passports for us. There was an issue as my dad had already secretly applied and the process for both was halted until it was sorted out.

Someone more knowledgeable can correct me but surely the best way to put your mind at rest is to get in first with passports??

suitcasecoveredincathair · 13/07/2023 05:31

Flatandhappy · 13/07/2023 04:16

Please get some proper legal advice around this OP, there is some very wrong information being given to you here.

Hear hear.

Pawpatrolsucks · 13/07/2023 05:41

Lots of conflicting advice, speak to legal aid. With the birth certificate can you stall him by saying you will look for the birth certificates. It might give you a few extra days before he applies for his own. Can you go and stay somewhere for a few weeks where he can’t find you?

LiquoriceAllsorts2 · 13/07/2023 05:46

When he returns to the Netherlands he will need to register at the municipality. As stated in here is it likely that they will require him to provide his children’s birth certificates. He will need to register that he has children, not doing is likelty to be illegal: https://www.netherlandsworldwide.nl/back-to-netherlands#

Checklist moving back to the Netherlands (remigration) | Netherlands Worldwide

Use this step-by-step plan if you live abroad and want to move back to the Netherlands.

https://www.netherlandsworldwide.nl/back-to-netherlands#

suitcasecoveredincathair · 13/07/2023 05:53

LiquoriceAllsorts2 · 13/07/2023 05:46

When he returns to the Netherlands he will need to register at the municipality. As stated in here is it likely that they will require him to provide his children’s birth certificates. He will need to register that he has children, not doing is likelty to be illegal: https://www.netherlandsworldwide.nl/back-to-netherlands#

I honestly don’t know what you’re on about. You are not required to - and indeed can’t - register your children with the municipality of they don’t live with you 🤷‍♀️ In any case children can only be registered to one address. The link above is only for RESIDENT parents.

Codlingmoths · 13/07/2023 05:57

It seems very unlikely he can take the kids as he won’t have passports within a week. But I would just say you need to apply and get your own copies of birth certificates. End of message, it’s not your problem. And apply for British passports yourself as you are planning to do.

MySugarBabyLove · 13/07/2023 06:04

liveforsummer · 12/07/2023 20:14

Simple thing to do here is not to add his details. You don't need a second parent's permission

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His details are on the birth certificates, which are needed to apply for the passports, so not giving his details isn’t an option.

OP I would suggest you seek some legal advice, because there is a lot of inaccurate advice on this thread.

E.g. nursery would not be able to refuse to let him take them as he has parental responsibility. Unless there are legal steps in place he has just as much right to collect the children as the OP.

You need to be pragmatic here rather than be panicked into thinking that he is going to steal your children as people here are so often keen to suggest.

There are some things in your favour but there are also things which you need to consider.

In terms of access, if there is no reason to believe he is a risk to the children then he is likely to be granted some access in the future, and at some point that is likely to involve the children being able to travel to the Netherlands.

The Netherlands is part of the Haigh convention, so this isn’t the same as e.g. a parent moving to certain Middle Eastern countries where if the children are taken there is a high likelihood of never getting them back.

your best bet here would be to take control. So tell him that he can apply for birth certificates on the .gov website if he needs them. Then go and see a solicitor in regards to sorting out a proper access schedule, with a view to his seeing the children here for the foreseeable due to their age, and this can potentially be amended as the children get older, if this is necessary.

That way you’re seen as being cooperative in the best interests of the children, and you’re the one who is being proactive in regards to maintaining their relationship with their father.

it gives you the upper hand because you’re the one essentially suggesting the access routine, and this does put you in control. Whereas if he applies for access first then he is going to be the one making the demands while you’re the one playing catch-up in order to maintain control.

LiquoriceAllsorts2 · 13/07/2023 06:14

suitcasecoveredincathair · 13/07/2023 05:53

I honestly don’t know what you’re on about. You are not required to - and indeed can’t - register your children with the municipality of they don’t live with you 🤷‍♀️ In any case children can only be registered to one address. The link above is only for RESIDENT parents.

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I don’t think you would be registering them as living there but registering them as being your children. For tax purposes the government would need to know he has children. If he is paying child support for them then that is taken into account for his taxes.

DotDotDotDotDot · 13/07/2023 06:16

Bluebellsbells · 12/07/2023 19:22

They can only have one passport. Get this sorted asap so he doesn't get the chance to and always renue so he can't.

He can obtain birth certificates himself if he wants one.

No true at all, myself and my kids have British and EU passports. You can have as many as you’re entitled to.

Emotionalsupportviper · 13/07/2023 06:23

poshme · 12/07/2023 19:10

Likely to use them to get passports.

Might be worth you getting passports for them and then keeping the passports. (As he then can't get British passports)

This is what I was going to suggest - get passports for them yourself so that he can't. Keep them in a safe place (at a relative's home if necessary).

Tell him he can order copies of the birth certificates himself.

Original poster

gallina · 13/07/2023 06:36

Thanks for all of the posts I am reading through the advice and will contact women's aid and a family solicitor today.

There is absolutely no point in me attempting to discuss this with him and find out his true intentions, he is an abusive bully and he will lie

OP posts:

UniversalAunt · 13/07/2023 06:44

Get the childrens’s passports asap.
Take advice from WA.

good plan.

RandomMess · 13/07/2023 07:08

He can't take the DC anywhere right now as they don't have passports at all.

He may be asking just to frighten you.

Ultimately you just say no. Sure he can get his own copy but leave that up to him to work out.

Grey rock him, is there any reason you can't block his phone calls to stop the bullying?

liveforsummer · 13/07/2023 07:13

His details are on the birth certificates, which are needed to apply for the passports, so not giving his details isn’t an option.

It is an option. Both times I applied for DC's passports I just put my details. You only need one parent to qualify them for a UK passport therefore that's all you actually need. Indeed you can also pop his basic details down if you wish as others have done but no need and you certainly don't need permission.

Oceanus · 13/07/2023 08:00

@VitoCorleoneOfMNMafia Look up something called "The Register Of Foreign Births". If you can prove that you have an Irish parent but were born abroad, you can pay £££ to be added to that register and get an Irish passport without ever setting foot on the Emerald Isle.
This makes sense to me. You'd need to register somewhere the first time before applying for a passport. A bureaucrat somewhere has to oficially declare you Irish first.

suitcasecoveredincathair · 13/07/2023 08:43

LiquoriceAllsorts2 · 13/07/2023 06:14

I don’t think you would be registering them as living there but registering them as being your children. For tax purposes the government would need to know he has children. If he is paying child support for them then that is taken into account for his taxes.

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Please don't confuse the OP by saying things you know nothing about. And in any case being on the birth certificate does not automatically mean you have parental rights in the Netherlands; it depends on a number of factors (which I will not go into here as I don't want to confuse the OP further). You clearly know nothing about how it works here.