Ex requesting birth certificates

[gallina]

My ex is leaving the country (UK) to move back to his home country (EU)

He is leaving this week although won't tell me a date. He is pressuring me for copies of the children's birth certificates.

Is there any reason why I should refrain from giving him a copy?

They are 2 and 1 years and don't have passports yet.

I'll give him a copy to keep the peace if there's nothing he could really do with it, but don't want to willingly hand it over if I'm opening myself up for him to try and take the children

Feeling pretty broken so appreciate any replies

Would he be able to claim a child benefit payment for them if he did that?

No. Not at all

And do not have any more contact

Order it through a solicitor
This must be terrifying

What an idiot

Don't engage with him

Ever

Just don't

Make sure it's via solicitor

Would he be able to claim a child benefit payment for them if he did that?

Yes, he can. The children can be registered as not living in the Netherlands but he will still receive child benefits if he applies for it.

There are lots of reasons he could want their birth certificates, it doesn’t necessarily mean he’s planning to take them. But, as that’s the worst case scenario, you need to take steps to prevent him.

Firstly, yes absolutely apply for their passports ASAP.

Second, this charity specialises in supporting families affected by parental child abduction. They have good prevention guides which tell you what you can do. They also have an advice line you can call to talk to someone. https://www.reunite.org/prevention-of-abduction/

Don’t hide your worries. Tell your family, friends, nursery, anyone who you think could aid him without realising it.

Good riddance to the abusive twat.

I only came here to say ‘get the passports before he does’, but seems I’m late to the party. So glad you’re doing that. Give him nothing.

It's only a 1 h 40 min drive from Calais to the Dutch border, so that isn't useful.

OP don't panic, I would imagine that he wants the birth certs to claim child benefit in his own country. If he was planning on getting passports to abduct your children I doubt he would be giving you a heads up.

OP, I don't want to be too outing so I'll be vague... I called the embassy of a certain country to enquire about a DC getting their nationality in the context of a nasty divorce and something the DC said. From what I gathered it was easy for the other parent to get the ball rolling and get the kid this other nationality, then a passport and then travel to these islands in the back of beyond and from there get lost in the world (that's what I thought anyway). If custody was fully shared this would be the plan.
They told me the parent who legally holds the responsibility for the child, in case custody isn't shared, should email and provide full evidence of them holding full custody and stating they do not allow for a passport to be issued to the child. It wouldn't be possible to stop the DC getting that nationality because they're entitled to it by law. I'll emphasise this country wasn't the Netherlands but maybe, besides getting those UK passports, you could call the Dutch embassy and ask how it works, regarding getting their nationality and a passport. They should also be able to tell you whether your kids are already Dutch or whether the process has been started but that will probably by appointment and in person. With this other country they could put something in the database to stop the non-custodian parent from getting any documents issued and I'm sure the Dutch, being so famous for being efficient and organised, will have soemthing similar in place.

There are four ferries per day from UK to the Netherlands and 27 from UK to the north of France, and then it is an hour to cross Belgium.

OP, the French and Dutch will ask for the permission letter from the non travelling parent when entering into the EU. So don't worry too much. My bet is that he will ask for the Dutch childrens benefits for them using the birth certificates and that's it. It is 100 euros per month per child, not depending on income. Nice bit of pocket money for him.

It’s possible to get a child’s first passport fast tracked within a week, so if you have the money, I would definitely try and do that asap in case he’s thinking of doing the same. This sounds so incredibly stressful. I’m sorry you are having to deal with this. I hope it all works out ok x

OP, the French and Dutch will ask for the permission letter from the non travelling parent when entering into the EU. So don't worry too much.
Actually, look up previous previous threads about this... Although legally true, in reality several MNetters have accidentally signed those on behalf of the father so they can go on holiday abroad.

yes, you need a prohibited steps order
if there has already been documented domestic abuse, that will help, speak to womens aid
[[https://www.ncdv.org.uk/ these people can help check out their website
once you have applied for the passports

Have a look here (official gov websites), it explains how to get citizenship (not a passport) when the father is Dutch. He'll need an acknowledgement of fatherhood - which is what he'll want the birth certificate for.
https://www.netherlandsworldwide.nl/having-child-abroad
While EU citizenship is useful to have, I'd leave it under they're old enough to apply themselves (easier when still under 18).

Once they have citizenship, as @sanluca said, both parents (presuming they have parental control - ouderlijk gezag) need to sign for a passport. If one refuses to sign, the other can take it to a civil court. I'm sorry I can only find this page in Dutch, but hopefully it translates alright - under "1 van de ouders geeft geen toestemming".
https://www.rijksoverheid.nl/onderwerpen/paspoort-en-identiteitskaart/vraag-en-antwoord/heeft-mijn-kind-een-eigen-paspoort-of-identiteitskaart-nodig

This organisation may be able to give you specific advice on abduction:
https://kinderontvoering.org/en/parents/advice/preventing-a-child-abduction/

Note that some previous posters said dual nationality is not allowed under current Dutch law - this is incorrect when your parents are of different nationalities.

By the way, you could get in there first and get a citizenship appointment for them at the Dutch embassy in London? Then do a passport application and lock them away. Dutch child benefit (kinderbijslag) is higher than England's, usually people get UK child benefit and the Dutch gov will top it up to their level. Bit of a hassle though, and I don't know how you'd go about requesting it without your Dutch own citizenship.

Let me know if you need anything translated.

@sanluca glad we know our ferries en dat de grenzen dichtbij zijn, haha

I would get the photos done first thing tomorrow morning & go straight to the post office & get the applications done, checked & sent off via the fast track system, you will have the passports back in under a week. Then, see about getting a prohibitive steps order sorted. Do you have anywhere you could go to until he leaves the country? Even if it means taking them out of school, if you explain to school I'm sure they would understand.

He could have taken photos of them any time he had contact hours with them.

To your knowledge, did the children ever get registered on any Netherlands register of foreign births?

Start the process of applying for British passports for them online tonight.

Do not give him the birth certs. He can het his own. What's the worst they can do to you for refusing, after all?

I lived in NL for years and looked into leaving my DH while I was there. I assumed that because we are Aussie citizens, it would be fine to take the kids home. According to Dutch law (and The Hague Convention), kids are legally considered (or treated as) citizens if they have residency. This would be easily achieved if the father is Dutch. It would be incredibly hard to get them back legally especially if he enrolls them in a peuterspeelzaal (which is considered pre-education.). (Like kindergarten, I guess.) Just “forget” about them entirely or tell him you have lost the certificates. He can spend his own money and get copies but you keep the originals. If he is telling the truth and leaving this week, they won’t arrive in time.

Also, if you get them British passports, see if you can get them flagged - that way if there are any attempts to have them replaced or new applications, you should be notified.

He may want to register them in NL and get them EU passports/ID.

I don’t know about the Netherlands but this isn’t always the case.

I have recently found out I have Irish citizenship. I was born in the UK.

however, because one of my parents was born in Ireland, I have been a citizen since birth.

if I want an Irish passport I apply for it, in the same way I would a British one. because I am a citizen of both countries.

@Lastusernamecantthinkofanotherone I can't think of a single country who grants their passport to people from other countries willy nilly. I would be more inclined to believe one of your parents informed the Irish embassy/consulate back in the day and somebody somewhere put your name into a database somewhere or your Irish parent had to fill in a form somewhere and wrote down your name. Otherwise how would Ireland know you even exist let alone your actual name? I do believe you think it happened that way though. If you were while the UK was in the EU that might be explain it but I still think you'd need to go through a process before legally being able to say you are an Irish citizen because it's not true (this my subjective opinion mind you) unless your name's in their database somewhere.
ahhhh somebody's telling me nationality and citizenship can mean different things depending on country!

if you were *born

Just a small detail, but OP doesn’t have ´the original’ birth certificates. In the UK ´the original’ birth certificate is the official register at the registry office where the birth was recorded. These used to be big physical books but they might have been replaced by an electronic version now. As a parent to a new baby, you’re given an official copy of the birth certificate, and anyone can apply online for a copy of a birth certificate on the register. - Many people researching their family history apply for copies of family members BCs. It costs 11pounds. These official copies are worth exact the same from a legal point of view as the copy new parents are given when registering a birth.

According to Dutch law (and The Hague Convention), kids are legally considered (or treated as) citizens if they have residency.

The children don't have Dutch residency. They have British residency, they live here. If the father tried to abduct them, the Hague Convention would support their return to the UK.

Chances are the father wants to acknowledge his children so that they can be Dutch citizens and he can claim Dutch child benefit for them and not sent any of it to OP for the children it's actually meant to support. However, he can buy his own copies of their birth certificates to do this, just like I did when I lost mine.

Having said that, getting the children British passports is a useful safeguard against him getting them passports as a means of annoying the OP. Pragmatism dictates that the resident parent should hold the children's passports.