Page 2 | Paris Mayo convicted of murder (TW)

Whitakers · 2023-06-27T05:55:18+00:00

NB v distressing content [[https://amp.theguardian.com/uk-news/2023/jun/23/teenager-guilty-baby-herefordshire-hide-pregnancy-paris-mayo https://amp.theguardian.com/uk-news/2023/jun/23/teenager-guilty-baby-herefordshire-hide-pregnancy-paris-mayo]] The jury was asked to consider an alternative verdict of infanticide but found her guilty of murder. I’m surprised by this- surprised she wasn’t just charged with infanticide in the first place, to be honest. It’s a terrible case.

x2boys · 27/06/2023 08:16

AP5Diva · 27/06/2023 08:13

Where’s your compassion for a 67yr old woman?

I have compassion for both, but you cannot sit here and argue that Mayo’s sentence is comparable to the sentences of even adults who kill. It’s harsher when it should be less harsh because she was a child.

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Im.not comparing cases ,I'm talking about THIS one where posters are seem to.care more about a girl who murdered a poor defenceless baby than the baby!

Chocolateship · 27/06/2023 08:18

AP5Diva · 27/06/2023 08:06

Although she gave birth in the front room, I completely agree with you OP.
There will be no sort of manslaughter defence like infanticide available to girls or women if this conviction stands. It’s unfair. It’s too harsh a punishment.

This man got 5yrs for violently killing his wife because she said “get over it” when he said he was finding lockdown hard.
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2021/feb/18/anthony-williams-killed-wife-act-of-great-violence-jailed-for-five-years

Yet a CHILD to you for sex gets 12yrs because they found pregnancy and childbirth hard and traumatic?! Something which is well known to psychologists and psychiatrists to be one of the most stressful time of a woman’s life- much less an underage child.

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Infanticide will still stand for cases where its relevant, it doesn't mean that it always applies and neither should it.

AP5Diva · 27/06/2023 08:18

Comparing her sentence to that of a man who killed his wife is a false syllogism.

Is it? Because right now I am seeing a hierarchy of victims with a baby boy’s life being worth more than twice what a 67yr old woman’s life is worth. 12yrs vs 5yrs.

AP5Diva · 27/06/2023 08:20

Or baby boy worth more than disabled girl with 12yrs vs 5yrs

x2boys · 27/06/2023 08:20

AP5Diva · 27/06/2023 08:18

Comparing her sentence to that of a man who killed his wife is a false syllogism.

Is it? Because right now I am seeing a hierarchy of victims with a baby boy’s life being worth more than twice what a 67yr old woman’s life is worth. 12yrs vs 5yrs.

If you want to start a,thread about the man who.murdered his wife start one
This thread us about a girl.who.murdered her baby stop.with the whataboutry.

ThisIsACoolUserName · 27/06/2023 08:21

Such a sad case all round.

In Cwmbran, South Wales, a man chased his terrified wife around the house, before trapping her at the front door and strangling her to death. He got 5 years.

I was sickened to read the injuries sustained by the baby in the Paris Mayo case, but Paris is a child and surely needs support and counselling, rather than a 12 year prison sentence.

So she'll come out of prison at 27, her formative years spent institutionalised. I'm sure that will make her a rounded and productive member of society.

BiscuitsandPuffin · 27/06/2023 08:21

AP5Diva · 27/06/2023 08:16

Ok, I keep seeing this “stamped on baby’s head” and you know that is an imaginative fabrication? The coroners report says the baby had a skull fracture indicative of head trauma consistent with a car accident. There is no evidence she stamped on the baby’s head. None. We don’t know exactly what she did.

You can’t compare father and mother for a neonaticide because the father can never go through the psychosocial stress of pregnancy and childbirth.

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A conclusion based on medical evidence isn't an "imaginative fabrication." Would it make it better for you if she'd inflicted injuries commensurate with a serious car accident on a newborn baby in another horrific way? Would that make it less premeditated and terrible for you? WTF??

WTFAreYouForReal · 27/06/2023 08:21

glast · 27/06/2023 08:06

She killed her newborn baby. She stamped on his head and when she realised he was still alive she then stuffed cotton wool down his throat, she meant to kill him.
15 is plenty old enough to understand you just don't do that !!

Wow. I haven't read anything about this, but if that's what she did she deserves a whole life sentence.

There's no mitigating circumstances for that. She could have abandoned it somewhere it would be found.

At 15 you know right from wrong, however 'distressed' you are.

Maybe she'd have been dealt with differently if she'd suffocated the baby, but you do the deed, you take the consequences.

Just imagine the comments on here if a man had done what she's done, there wouldn't be any namby pamby excuses being made.

BiscuitsandPuffin · 27/06/2023 08:22

AP5Diva · 27/06/2023 08:18

Comparing her sentence to that of a man who killed his wife is a false syllogism.

Is it? Because right now I am seeing a hierarchy of victims with a baby boy’s life being worth more than twice what a 67yr old woman’s life is worth. 12yrs vs 5yrs.

You could read my whole post and see that I said the solution is harder sentences for male domestic abusers not lighter sentences for female baby killers but I suppose that wouldn't be out of context enough for your attempt to derail the thread.

AP5Diva · 27/06/2023 08:22

x2boys · 27/06/2023 08:20

If you want to start a,thread about the man who.murdered his wife start one
This thread us about a girl.who.murdered her baby stop.with the whataboutry.

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This thread is about whether her conviction and sentence are just. You can’t even begin to discuss that without looking at other homicides and the convictions/sentences handed down to others who have killed.

AP5Diva · 27/06/2023 08:23

BiscuitsandPuffin · 27/06/2023 08:22

You could read my whole post and see that I said the solution is harder sentences for male domestic abusers not lighter sentences for female baby killers but I suppose that wouldn't be out of context enough for your attempt to derail the thread.

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I did and I responded to that first.

AP5Diva · 27/06/2023 08:24

BiscuitsandPuffin · 27/06/2023 08:21

A conclusion based on medical evidence isn't an "imaginative fabrication." Would it make it better for you if she'd inflicted injuries commensurate with a serious car accident on a newborn baby in another horrific way? Would that make it less premeditated and terrible for you? WTF??

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It’s not a conclusion based on medical evidence though, it’s imaginative speculation the hyper focuses on one of dozens of ways in which a skull fracture can be caused.

drpet49 · 27/06/2023 08:24

loislovesstewie · 27/06/2023 08:13

She stamped on a newborn baby's head fracturing the skull, the baby would have been in excruciating pain. She then stuffed cotton wool down his throat to kill him as he was still alive. I'm sorry but do people really think that anyone is not a risk and should not be punished after that? She has been sentenced to 12 years, she will still be young when she comes out.
I would ask how you would feel if the father of the baby had done this?

This. Disgusting to see baby murderer apologists on this thread. Disgusting.

x2boys · 27/06/2023 08:25

AP5Diva · 27/06/2023 08:22

This thread is about whether her conviction and sentence are just. You can’t even begin to discuss that without looking at other homicides and the convictions/sentences handed down to others who have killed.

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Well.yes you can because unless you have all the facts to.hand and the situations are almost identical than each case will be judged individually.

AllOfThemWitches · 27/06/2023 08:28

It's been pointed out many times that pregnancy and childbirth can be distressing and traumatic, especially when the baby is unwanted. Still, most women and girls in that situation do not assault and murder their newborns.

x2boys · 27/06/2023 08:28

drpet49 · 27/06/2023 08:24

This. Disgusting to see baby murderer apologists on this thread. Disgusting.

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Indeed but this is mumsnet and I have seen it time and time again when women have committed a heinous crime
Some posters tying themselves in knots to.excuse, them because they are women

AP5Diva · 27/06/2023 08:29

x2boys · 27/06/2023 08:25

Well.yes you can because unless you have all the facts to.hand and the situations are almost identical than each case will be judged individually.

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Like I haven’t heard that before when discussing racial disparity in conviction and sentences. The cases do not need to be almost identical to be able to draw comparisons. Nor do you need “all the facts” to hand, because we never have all the facts. The judge and jury didn’t have all the facts.

There should be some consistency, and I’m not seeing consistency. I’m seeing a young woman having the book thrown at her for a crime she committed as a vulnerable and neglected child.

Chocolateship · 27/06/2023 08:30

AP5Diva · 27/06/2023 08:24

It’s not a conclusion based on medical evidence though, it’s imaginative speculation the hyper focuses on one of dozens of ways in which a skull fracture can be caused.

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And yet every single one of the scenarios involve an excessive amount of purposeful force. It was pointed out that the injury was consistent with that of someone in a car crash, that's extremely violent and not an accident whatever the method. Perhaps if PM had been honest about her actions this would have been taken into account, as is sadly no one will ever know.

Elderflower14 · 27/06/2023 08:30

I'm glad she was jailed for murder not infanticide. To stamp on a babies head and stuff it's mouth with cotton wool is wicked beyond words.
My sympathy is reserved for her mother who found the baby in the bin... 😔 😔 😔 😔

loislovesstewie · 27/06/2023 08:30

If you find me saying 'stamped on the baby's head' wrong, I'll rephrase it. She assaulted the baby so severely that she left him with injuries of such severity that it was like he had been in a car crash. Whatever she did was violent.

x2boys · 27/06/2023 08:31

AP5Diva · 27/06/2023 08:29

Like I haven’t heard that before when discussing racial disparity in conviction and sentences. The cases do not need to be almost identical to be able to draw comparisons. Nor do you need “all the facts” to hand, because we never have all the facts. The judge and jury didn’t have all the facts.

There should be some consistency, and I’m not seeing consistency. I’m seeing a young woman having the book thrown at her for a crime she committed as a vulnerable and neglected child.

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She brutally murdered a baby ,that's just about the worse crime somebody can commit what would you propose would be a suitable sentence?

AP5Diva · 27/06/2023 08:31

AllOfThemWitches · 27/06/2023 08:28

It's been pointed out many times that pregnancy and childbirth can be distressing and traumatic, especially when the baby is unwanted. Still, most women and girls in that situation do not assault and murder their newborns.

Yes well most people dont choke to death someone who has said “get over it”
I suppose hurty words are more of an excuse than pregnancy and childbirth even though it is scientifically proven that the stresses of pregnancy and childbirth can quite literally drive a girl/woman into psychosis.

FlippyFloppyFlappy · 27/06/2023 08:33

I’m shocked at the sentence she’s received and the fact she’s been named.
I obviously feel dreadfully sorry for the baby most of all but I also feel sorry for Paris too.

AllOfThemWitches · 27/06/2023 08:34

And the fact that she is capable of such violence surely makes her dangerous, if 'only' to any future babies. Not only that, I can't even see how anyone could consider her remorseful since she tried to lie her way out of it.

pickledandpuzzled · 27/06/2023 08:34

Why are so many people unable to have compassion for both the baby and the child who killed him?

She killed her baby- which is terrible.

She also was a needy neglected immature 14yr old with an abusive, terminally ill father, who had sex without a condom because the boy didn't like them, gave birth in silence to avoid disturbing her parents, with no planning or preparation.

It was decided there was premeditation and therefore murder because she knew for the last hour of her labour that she was giving birth and made no plans for what to do about the baby.

How much planning does the average woman do in the last hour of labour when our body is contracting and pushing beyond our control?