Paris Mayo convicted of murder (TW)

[Whitakers]

NB v distressing content

https://amp.theguardian.com/uk-news/2023/jun/23/teenager-guilty-baby-herefordshire-hide-pregnancy-paris-mayo

The jury was asked to consider an alternative verdict of infanticide but found her guilty of murder. I’m surprised by this- surprised she wasn’t just charged with infanticide in the first place, to be honest. It’s a terrible case.

Yeah you've said similar on the other thread. It doesn't seem as though she was driven to psychosis though, does it?

"Some posters tying themselves in knots to.excuse, them because they are women"

This is such a misogynist statement. Taking account of pressures and circumstances only women experience is not 'tying yourself in knots to excuse them'.

I really think she should have been convicted of infanticide. Her case is textbook of what commonly happens- the mother is in denial. It’s not lying, so much as being under a delusion that she did not kill her baby. A delusion is a subtle form of psychosis.
https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/228782/0030.pdf

Oh ffs lots of violent murderers are deeply troubled with disturbing backgrounds of abuse and neglect.

It’s awful isn’t it. Can’t even say she panicked as it was more than one attempt really wasn’t it and 15 is old enough to know right from wrong.

If a poster puts on here that their toddler is tormenting a kitten or puppy that animal will get more sympathy than a human baby for some reason.

She murdered her baby. She is an evil monster who got of lightly with a 12 year sentence. Plenty of people come from dysfunctional backgrounds and don't commit a crime like this.

It does seem that way actually. Only someone who is completely deluded would maintain their innocence in the face of concrete evidence that they’d killed sometime to the extent she has. Which is what Mayo has done. Which is what many other mothers have done such that the Law Commission has reported that reform is needed to address this inequality.

And they often get convicted of manslaughter, not murder.

It does seem that way actually. Only someone who is completely deluded would maintain their innocence in the face of concrete evidence that they’d killed sometime to the extent she has.

This isn't true.

Im.well.aware of what a delusion is thanks I used to.be a mebtsl.health nurse🙄
I.have also.nursed someone who wss convicted of infanticide ,the difference is she had a diagnosis of postpartum.psychosis which we very evident
Paris wil!have been assessed for mental.health conditions
You can't just decide she must of Been psychotic.

I’m conflicted about this.

She was 15, hadn’t told a soul she was pregnant and had just given birth, alone and in silence as she didn’t want to wake up her parents (her father was “emotionally abusive according to the court). She must have been absolutely petrified and I think this should have been taken into account. Especially as others have pointed out, men can murder their wives and get 5 years! So I think the sentence is harsh in comparison.

She obviously needs a huge amount of intensive help and therapy, let’s hope she gets it.

Yes it is. Read the Law Commission screen shot.
Read the scientific studies on psychosis in pregnancy and post partum and how delusions can be a primary feature of a mother’s psychosis.

If the killer had been the 15 year old FATHER of the baby would he get the same sympathy from some on here?

FlippyFloppyFlappy?
AP5Diva?
Whitakers?

She will.have been thoroughly assessed .

She did murder the baby, and horribly, and for that she needs to face the consequences.

I am quite surprised by the judges remarks about her having people to turn to who would have supported her though.

When I was 15, I think my parents would have supported me. But I absolutely would not have thought that they would have. She says she slept around at 13 to feel good about herself - I don't think that correlates with a girl with the sort of homelife where you think your parents would support you with birth/abortion etc. And her (step?)father was dying too.

I just think it's an odd conclusion to draw that her family would have seemed an obvious form of support to her from the limited information out there.

Not a 'textbook' case of infanticide - extreme violence is unusual

Delusion is not a 'subtle form of psychosis'

You don't seem to know what you are talking about and are spouting nonsense

She wasn’t assessed when it happened. Her mother who abandoned her with an abusive father made sure of that.

She was assessed years later for this trial and one psychiatrist who had personally assessed her said she had false memories (consistent with having had a psychotic episode) and the other psychiatrist who watched bodycam footage and never assessed her in person said she was perfectly fine.

Yes but she wasn't psychotic why have you decided she was?

@BMW6 Today 08:43
If the killer had been the 15 year old FATHER of the baby would he get the same sympathy from some on here?

I doubt a 15 year old FATHER would have been pregnant, not told a soul, then given birth in silence and on his own.

I know what psychosis is.

She is not the first criminal to maintain their innocence when presented with concrete evidence. The fact that she has, shows a lack of remorse.

The fact that she didn't really attempt to hide the baby's body (she left it on the doorstep knowing her mum would pick up the binbag) speaks to a disordered mind at the time of the killing, surely. Poor little Stanley but I don't think we can reliably describe the actions of a child who has been concealing a pregnancy (possibly from herself too?) and who has just given birth alone as 'premeditated'.

Sorry, but delusions are one of the top 3 symptoms of psychosis
”But in general, 3 main symptoms are associated with a psychotic episode:

hallucinations
delusions
confused and disturbed thoughts” - NHS

And they are subtle because as in this case, Mayo’s delusions are being called lying. People are missing the obvious.

Totally different scenario BMW6.

Or perhaps a mental illness, psychosis, that is present in two thirds of mothers who kill their babies?

I think it likely she was based on the evidence I’ve seen.