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Paris Mayo convicted of murder (TW)

359 replies

Whitakers · 27/06/2023 06:55

NB v distressing content

https://amp.theguardian.com/uk-news/2023/jun/23/teenager-guilty-baby-herefordshire-hide-pregnancy-paris-mayo

The jury was asked to consider an alternative verdict of infanticide but found her guilty of murder. I’m surprised by this- surprised she wasn’t just charged with infanticide in the first place, to be honest. It’s a terrible case.

Teenager guilty of murdering baby in Herefordshire to hide pregnancy | UK news | The Guardian

Paris Mayo, now 19, violently assaulted newborn in 2019 to stop family finding out about the birth

https://amp.theguardian.com/uk-news/2023/jun/23/teenager-guilty-baby-herefordshire-hide-pregnancy-paris-mayo

OP posts:
Thread gallery
13
Queenofthenight123 · 28/06/2023 13:16

x2boys · 28/06/2023 13:05

Everything posters don't agree with on mumsnet is misogyny🙄
What do.toy feel.would be an appropriate sentence for someone who brutally murdered a defence new born?

It's astonishing the lengths some MNetters go to to minimise the accountability of serious criminal offences just because it's a girl/woman and want to position them as the victim of the situation.

MichelleScarn · 28/06/2023 13:18

Queenofthenight123 · 28/06/2023 13:16

It's astonishing the lengths some MNetters go to to minimise the accountability of serious criminal offences just because it's a girl/woman and want to position them as the victim of the situation.

Absolutely agree with both posts here!

AgathaSpencerGregson · 28/06/2023 13:36

Oioicaptain · 28/06/2023 10:45

I do think that the sentence of 12 years is unduly harsh. The courts have greater discretion when sentencing under 18s. It's not in the public interest to put her away for that long.

Worth looking at the judge’s sentencing remarks. Starting point for an offender under 18 is 12 years. He actually took a starting point of 9. Once all aggravating and mitigating factors were taken into account (and he does appear to have taken a great deal into account on her behalf) he got to 12.
what seems to have counted against her is the brutal and prolonged course of conduct against the child. That really is very serious. The court had no option but to mark that. Surely that’s right? A society which doesn’t take that exceptionally seriously would not be a pleasant one.

whatabeautifulwedding · 28/06/2023 13:43

loislovesstewie · 28/06/2023 09:37

No, people think it's sick to kill a baby full stop. Bringing up other, possible, miscarriages of justice doesn't get away from the fact that Paris caused appalling injuries to her son, that the injuries were likened to a car crash victim, that he lived for some time after the first injury and she finished him off by stuffing cotton wool down his throat. It doesn't matter if the baby was male or female, it's utterly appalling. It has nothing to do with a female ' not fulfilling her destiny as a woman'. It's being unspeakably cruel to a human being when they are at their most vulnerable.

This

AllOfThemWitches · 28/06/2023 13:49

MichelleScarn · 28/06/2023 09:38

Bullshit, and disgusting of you to infer that there wouldn't be as much upset and outrage if she'd similarly murdered a baby girl.

Agree. Disgusting comments.

AllOfThemWitches · 28/06/2023 13:52

secretbinger3 · 28/06/2023 12:06

poor girl...only 15...must have been terrified and overwhelmed going through an ordeal like that alone

And yet, many young teenage girls go through it and manage not to commit murder.

Pythacalling702 · 28/06/2023 13:58

I think it’s more her youth at the time than her sex that people are commenting on tbh. And her vulnerability with her father terminally ill and feeling she couldn’t speak to her mother.

As a general principle, do people really believe that children should be tried on the same terms as adults?

To agree with that, surely you would have to believe that there aren’t any major differences between the maturity, reasoning skills, confidence, ability to cope in adverse circumstances, ability to discern what is going to happen in the future, planning skills, impulsivity, and self awareness of a fifteen year old teenage girl and say a 30 year old woman. When clearly there are many!

Any parents of teens on here would tell you about the differences. Go and read the teenage boards if you don’t believe me. The teen threads here bear witness to specific issues unique to that age group.

To be clear, no one here is excusing this horrendous crime so please don’t keep saying we are. She should have sought help. What she did was unremittingly awful, despicable, and wrong. But I think any reasonable person could imagine the scenario being potentially very different if the mother had been ten years older at the time of this appalling incident.

Queenofthenight123 · 28/06/2023 14:01

AllOfThemWitches · 28/06/2023 13:52

And yet, many young teenage girls go through it and manage not to commit murder.

Agreed. The Judge said in his sentencing remarks that she must've been frightened and overwhelmed and that he felt she had been in some degree of denial about her pregnancy. Nobody is suggesting she wasn't.

But she could have taken many, many other courses of action which were not murdering her child in such a violent fashion.

The overwhelming number of women or girls would not have done that nor even been capable of such acts. As an immature 15 year old or at any age. That is why she has been convicted of murder and the sentence is just IMO.

Queenofthenight123 · 28/06/2023 14:11

Pythacalling702 · 28/06/2023 13:58

I think it’s more her youth at the time than her sex that people are commenting on tbh. And her vulnerability with her father terminally ill and feeling she couldn’t speak to her mother.

As a general principle, do people really believe that children should be tried on the same terms as adults?

To agree with that, surely you would have to believe that there aren’t any major differences between the maturity, reasoning skills, confidence, ability to cope in adverse circumstances, ability to discern what is going to happen in the future, planning skills, impulsivity, and self awareness of a fifteen year old teenage girl and say a 30 year old woman. When clearly there are many!

Any parents of teens on here would tell you about the differences. Go and read the teenage boards if you don’t believe me. The teen threads here bear witness to specific issues unique to that age group.

To be clear, no one here is excusing this horrendous crime so please don’t keep saying we are. She should have sought help. What she did was unremittingly awful, despicable, and wrong. But I think any reasonable person could imagine the scenario being potentially very different if the mother had been ten years older at the time of this appalling incident.

She wasn't tried on the same basis as an adult. The Judge sentenced her based on her age at the time of the offence and the sentencing guidelines for a 15 or 16 year old. The starting point being 10 years. The Judge felt that she was an immature 15 year old so reduced the starting point to 9 years. The aggravating factors took her case up to a minimum of 14 years. He took into account mitigating factors so took her down to 12 years.

It's one of the factors that led her to get a relatively low minimum tariff. An adult committing the same offence would have been given a higher minimum tariff as the starting point is 15 years.

secretbinger3 · 28/06/2023 14:12

yet late terminations happen everyday...whats the difference? inside the mother's body or outside it? location

MichelleScarn · 28/06/2023 14:19

secretbinger3 · 28/06/2023 14:12

yet late terminations happen everyday...whats the difference? inside the mother's body or outside it? location

Absolutely gf post.

HunkaMunkasslipper · 28/06/2023 14:27

This is one of the worst cases I've heard of and I read a lot of true crime Sad

A baby is completely defenseless. That makes it so much worse than others murders-in many of them at least people have varying chances of being able to defend themselves. As does the fact she was its parent. Poor little thing, innocently brought into this world to be put through that-and I am childless and don't even really particularly LIKE babies.

I don't have sympathy for her.

Queenofthenight123 · 28/06/2023 15:02

Faybian · 28/06/2023 14:39

It is not the legally correct decision. Have a look at the infanticide act:

It is legally correct. She had a fair trial and all aggravating and mitigating factors were taken into account. She was assessed by competent Psychiatrists and the jury was directed to consider a charge of infanticide which there was not sufficient evidence to support.

You thinking you know better than the entire criminal justice system doesn't mean a thing.

Queenofthenight123 · 28/06/2023 15:12

123wdcd · 28/06/2023 14:42

14 when the baby was conceived. "The laws are there to protect children..." (https://westmidlands.procedures.org.uk/pkplh/regional-safeguarding-guidance/sexually-active-children-and-young-people-including-under-age-sexual-activity#:~:text=Consent%20and%20the%20law,-Sexual%20consent%20means&text=The%20age%20of%20consent%20(the,the%20age%20of%20those%20involved.)

Appalling and tragic case all round. It sounds like she needed support well before this happened, but was not given it and now still not getting support.

The father of the child was also under the age of consent. He was referred to as 'a boy' in the sentencing remarks.

What law do you think is in place to 'protect' underage individuals from having mutually consenting sex even though it's illegal?

There isn't one.

x2boys · 28/06/2023 15:14

secretbinger3 · 28/06/2023 14:12

yet late terminations happen everyday...whats the difference? inside the mother's body or outside it? location

So.brutally murdering new born babies is ok then?

x2boys · 28/06/2023 15:22

Faybian · 28/06/2023 14:39

It is not the legally correct decision. Have a look at the infanticide act:

Oh I'm sure the judge and judicial system will.defer to.you now,you have done a bit of googling ,clearly you know better ,than them.🙄

loislovesstewie · 28/06/2023 15:30

secretbinger3 · 28/06/2023 14:12

yet late terminations happen everyday...whats the difference? inside the mother's body or outside it? location

I really can't believe that you have said that, if you can't see the difference then I despair.

secretbinger3 · 28/06/2023 15:39

no

but a late termination is the same principle...fully formed, beating heart, fingers and toes, brainwaves...crushed and pulled/sucked out of the mother.
no one bats an eyelid

and before you ask, Iam very much pro choice

secretbinger3 · 28/06/2023 15:44

this poor young child, (because at 15 that is what she is), was traumatised, terrified and desperate. not condoning what she did but my heart does go out to her

Efacsen · 28/06/2023 15:47

secretbinger3 · 28/06/2023 15:39

no

but a late termination is the same principle...fully formed, beating heart, fingers and toes, brainwaves...crushed and pulled/sucked out of the mother.
no one bats an eyelid

and before you ask, Iam very much pro choice

That's not how late terminations are performed

Bathintheshed · 28/06/2023 15:48

secretbinger3 · 28/06/2023 15:39

no

but a late termination is the same principle...fully formed, beating heart, fingers and toes, brainwaves...crushed and pulled/sucked out of the mother.
no one bats an eyelid

and before you ask, Iam very much pro choice

That is not how a late termination happens.

Bathintheshed · 28/06/2023 15:48

Sorry, cross post.

x2boys · 28/06/2023 15:49

secretbinger3 · 28/06/2023 15:44

this poor young child, (because at 15 that is what she is), was traumatised, terrified and desperate. not condoning what she did but my heart does go out to her

What about the baby ?

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