Paris Mayo convicted of murder (TW)

[Whitakers]

NB v distressing content

https://amp.theguardian.com/uk-news/2023/jun/23/teenager-guilty-baby-herefordshire-hide-pregnancy-paris-mayo

The jury was asked to consider an alternative verdict of infanticide but found her guilty of murder. I’m surprised by this- surprised she wasn’t just charged with infanticide in the first place, to be honest. It’s a terrible case.

I think, truthfully, that if she does get pregnant again, then the baby might well be taken into care at birth.

I am appalled how many people seem to be making excuses for this person.

She made two attempts on her babies life. I find it hard to believe she suffered labour pains and didn't mention them to anyone if she didn't know she was pregnant and in labour and purposefully concealing it.

I think she deserves the sentence she has been given.

No one is “glossing” over the horror of it!

Have you missed adjectives in my posts such as “unforgivable, cruel and truly abhorrent?”

No one is excusing this awful crime.

But I do think it is reasonable to take her youth and distress in to account - nothing more and nothing less.

As for the wider feminist point; anyone who thinks misogyny isnt part of the criminal justice system should just have a quick look at rape conviction figures.

All the other stuff you have written above has nothing to do with what I believe. You are making huge assumptions and huge leaps of imagination in order to back up your opinion.

Even if I did believe all of that stuff you have written, anyone who has done even the most cursory of studies on prisons and convictions and sentences knows that the UK is one of the countries who locks up the most people in Europe and has some of the highest crime rates; so harsh prison sentences in general have not been found to be terribly effective. Rory Stewart’s findings on the subject when he was Prisons’ Minister also backed this up.

And finally: people are allowed to hold different views on this sentencing without being accused in any way of supporting or condoning infanticide.

Your doing now comparing it to.other crimes
I have seen a,lot of that poor girl.comments
Posters suggesting she shouldn't be in prison
Posters making up.excuses for her
Not much compassion for a tiny defenceless baby tbh.

In that case, the psychiatric evidence was accepted to give him a partial defence, hence he was convicted of manslaughter with diminished responsibility and received a lower sentence.

In PM's case, psychiatric evidence was also presented, but the jury did not accept that it supported a verdict of infanticide, hence a murder conviction.

I do find it interesting that the judge publicly criticised the psychiatrist appointed by the prosecution, and I wonder if there may be any basis for PM's team to appeal there.

If I'd read anything to suggest she was actually genuinely remorseful, maybe I'd feel some sympathy.

You haven’t just failed to understand the chunk of text you posted; you didn’t even read it properly.

I’m not going to engage in a tit for tat with you x2boys as I am busy with other things now. I hold a different perspective to you. I’m allowed to. And I do very much feel compassion for the baby as well.

I knew a girl who had a baby at home then just hid the baby in a carrier bag in the wardrobe. She did nothing else to the baby. The baby was found to have taken a breath but died due to no care being given. The girl was convicted of manslaughter. This girl murdered the baby in a horrific and violent manner. She murdered the baby and is right where she needs to be!

@Pythacalling702 "You are making huge assumptions and huge leaps of imagination in order to back up your opinion."

You really must read your own posts before you accuse others.

This thread is the worst hypocrisy and so typical of this site now.

Sentencing in this country is far too lenient. People who commit murder should spend a significant part of their life in prison, not just a few years.

I agree with you. If this man got 5 years why has a vulnerable child got 15?

The likelihood is that the baby wasn't planned, but there is no proof it wasn't. The baby was murdered in a brutal way. We have no way to gauge the risk of her reoffending. For all we know she may well have enjoyed murdering the baby, and could become pregnant again with the intent of murdering other babies. I am incredibly pro choice, but no, I do not support brutal child murder.

Respectfully, please try and accept that others may legitimately hold different opinions to you! This is a discussion board!

And just to clarify, feeling compassion for a 15 year old who commits murder doesn’t automatically mean you support brutal child murder either! It is possible to condemn the crime AND feel compassion for the child perpetrator being in that situation. Is that so hard to understand or has all nuance left the building?

Anyone capable of murder deserves a lengthy jail term. Just because someone is vulnerable does not allow them to get away with literal murder.

The judge actually increased her sentence because she was his mother saying 'you were guilty of a fundamental abuse of the trust that is placed in every mother by her child. Taken with the vulnerability of the child this is a very significantly aggravating feature' . The whole point of infanticide is that it applies to mothers killing their children, especially imediately after birth. This was a classic case of infanticide, she was vulnerable, she was in denial about the pregnancy, she had just given birth and she cannot remember what happened clearly. This is a miscarriage of justice. She is guilty but 12 years for this type of crime committed at 15 is just plain wrong. https://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/health-and-families/murder-or-infanticide-understanding-the-causes-behind-the-most-shocking-of-crimes-a7820806.html

I doubt the baby was planned but unless they are incredibly sheltered, most 14 year olds know that sex = possible pregnancy.

Oh I see - my opinion doesn't count but yours does? There really isn't any respect in your continuing to try to shut down any opinion that isn't yours. You use a lot of words, but no evidence of anything except your opinion. Wheras I have used facts that are verifiable. But facts aren't something much in evidence around here at times. My opinion is that this is hypocrisy, and you still haven't countered a single argument based on fact that I or anyone else have made. She murdered a baby, over several hours, tried to hide that fact, and has shown not a shred of remorse. Those are facts which a judge and jury have weighed over a great deal of time. But of course you know better than they do because you read a couple of articles.

You do realise that "discussion" involves a variety of views and not just the one that you adhere to? Again, please read your own posts before attacking others for something that you are guilty of.

I asked some questions - why don't you answer them? Or just one of them... do you or do you not support the Scottish changes to penal law that enable young rapists to avoid the legal system because their brains are not fully developed and are immature and there are better ways of dealing with them than imprisoning them? Because it is exactly the same principle. I do not accept that rapists should go free, and nor do I agree that murderers should.

And most 14 year olds know that a sustained attack on a child designed to kill it is murder.

This post is proper mad stuff eh

Yes. Yes it has. Together with its friends, balance and factual accuracy

Why was she named if this happened when she was 15 years old?

The cynic in me thinks outcomes so inconsistent mean that the life of a baby boy is worth 3x more than the life of a woman past childbearing age. It seems to me that society still thinks women are for making babies, especially boy babies, and the worst type of killing is that of a baby boy. But killing a 67yr old woman who is no longer useful to society, she’s past it, can’t make babies is merely an ooopsy, oh well here’s 5yrs. Whereas a girl who kills a baby cannot be trusted to fulfill her function as a woman of making babies so lock her up and throw away the key with a life sentence that has a minimum custodial tariff of 12yrs.

There’s misogyny in our justice system.

You’ve got nothing but personal attacks and batshit questions that aren’t even vaguely related to the point I made that you initially objected to. A point that I have more than supported with linked legal texts, even quoted from the one textbook on Amazon which you told me to go and read like I was some student- you probably had no idea that I have that book and it actually supports my point…did you randomly Google “legal case law textbook” and then link the book on Amazon thinking you could get away with it? And you’ve posted nothing else to back up your dismissal of my point. Nada. If “every English lawyer” agreed with you, wouldn’t it be in a legal text somewhere? The reason you haven’t linked anything else is because it does not exist.

Now it’s just you stubbornly calling me stupid in different ways. But carry on, I think readers have cottoned on to you.