Can someone please explain the Russia/Wagner thing really simply please?

[darkmodeon]

I've tried reading up but it seems to assume a basic level of knowledge - I don't. All I know is Russia invaded Ukraine and I have no idea who or what Wagner is but they are now invading Russia?!

[OnlyFins]

Placemarking.

[WelshNerd]

Wagner is a private security/mercenary group. They were working alongside the Russian military but now their leader has turned against Putin. It could result in civil war but there are lots of unknowns at present.

[ToBeOrNotToBee]

Who ever controls Moscow on Monday wins.

Both sides are baddies.

[GeorgeSpeaks]

It's rumoured that they are advancing on Moscow and Putin has fled Moscow for St Petersburg.

[darkmodeon]

Thank you very much so what is it Wagner is doing - what do they want? To overthrow Putin?

[darkmodeon]

@ToBeOrNotToBee

Who ever controls Moscow on Monday wins.

Both sides are baddies.

Ah. So Wagner winning isn't necessarily good. Would it stop the war in Ukraine though? Is the Russian army big enough to stop them - how big is Wagner?

[Missingmyusername]

@GeorgeSpeaks

It's rumoured that they are advancing on Moscow and Putin has fled Moscow for St Petersburg.

🧐flipping eck!

[pickledandpuzzled]

I'm wondering similar. What would Wagner do if they got rid of putin? What would happen about Ukraine? I'd like to think they'd get some respite.

[djivdfj]

On the Flightradar24 app 46000 people were tacking a presidential plane leaving from Moscow to St Petersburg an hour or so ago 😬

[PerkingFaintly]

The owner of Wagner, Prigozhin, helped put Putin where he is and maintain him there.

He is also the man who owns/owned a lot of the internet troll factories which try to shape the information space across the world.

So Prigozhin has been extremely powerful for some time.

He was pretty much aligned with Putin's program. And now he's not.

[Hoppinggreen]

Putin released his attack dogs on The Ukraine and now they have turned around and are attempting to bit him instead

[DogInATent]

@darkmodeon

Thank you very much so what is it Wagner is doing - what do they want? To overthrow Putin?

Wagner was hired as a private contract army by Russia to plug gaps in the Russian army. The Russian government haven't been keeping their side of the deal in terms of suppling ammunition, equipment, etc. There's been a lot of tension between the two. They've both been throwing the toys out of the pram for a while now, but in the last few days it's begun to get serious. Wagner appears to have support within the Russian army, and possibly some support within the FSB. Because of their starting positions in all of this they also have the ability to capture the supplies supporting the Russian army in the Ukraine.

Ukraine are at serious risk of running out of popcorn whilst all this plays out.

[ToBeOrNotToBee]

@darkmodeon

Ah. So Wagner winning isn't necessarily good. Would it stop the war in Ukraine though? Is the Russian army big enough to stop them - how big is Wagner?

Wagner is Putins private army essentially. They get sent wherever Putin wants to exert strong arm tactics without it officially coming from Russia. See what they did in Syria for a general idea of what they're about.

What this does is give Ukraine a bit of breathing space, Russian troops will be isolated from supply chains now, and have no realistic prospect of advancing now.

If Putin survives he's severely weakened. He's shown the people of Russia that he's not the Russian bear he likes to portray.

If Wagner win, who knows what will happen.

[pickledandpuzzled]

@PerkingFaintly

The owner of Wagner, Prigozhin, helped put Putin where he is and maintain him there.

He is also the man who owns/owned a lot of the internet troll factories which try to shape the information space across the world.

So Prigozhin has been extremely powerful for some time.

He was pretty much aligned with Putin's program. And now he's not.

That's scary then. No hope for a change of direction, just a younger healthier leader.

[OrangeBlossom28]

@pickledandpuzzled
Maybe younger and healthier but extremely dangerous with it.
It's terrifying what's happening there atm.

[sleepyscientist]

It's doesn't look like it will help Ukraine unless he bargains a pull back with the west to secure the economy and end sanctions. He's not anti-Ukraine war as he fought for Putin, still hope he gets him even the end of him is a step forward

[DogInATent]

The reason Wagner had to be hired in the first place is that the Russian army is inherently corrupt, and has never had the men or equipment in reality that it supposedly had on paper. There's a culture of falsifying readiness reports, and the supply situation in normal times is pretty bad. The Russian army is essentially a conscript army not a professional one. Wagner is not a lot better (it's been recruiting from Russian prisons), but Prigozhin has a better understanding of logistics and supply.

[Apricotflanday]

As long as we or nato don't get involved...
But I feel so sad for the ordinary Russian people, continually battered about by aggressive, dictatorial politicians and power struggles.

[INeedAnotherName]

He is also the man who owns/owned a lot of the internet troll factories which try to shape the information space across the world.

I didn't know that. I thought it was Putin. So we could basically swap one despot for another. Joy :/

[Wheresthebeach]

Wagner are a bunch of criminal psychopaths who torture and murder. It is not good news if that are in charge.

[pickledandpuzzled]

I do remember the recruitment drive where they were really clear that drug abuse and rape of anyone were unacceptable.

It was relatively civilised. As these things go.

[darkmodeon]

Thank you all. Most appreciated.

[PurplePositivity]

Not helpful but whenever I hear it on the radio I can't help but think of Wagner who was on X Factor back in the day!

[darkmodeon]

@pickledandpuzzled

I do remember the recruitment drive where they were really clear that drug abuse and rape of anyone were unacceptable.

It was relatively civilised. As these things go.

I mean who are they recruiting if they have to specify!

[heldinadream]

Hike yourselves over to the Ukraine threads. Thread 41 nearly finished, thread 42 now underway. Especially see post on thread 42 at 14.35 by @ReleaseTheDucksOfWar.
There are immensely knowledgeable posters on these threads and you can learn a lot.