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Can someone please explain the Russia/Wagner thing really simply please?

110 replies

darkmodeon · 24/06/2023 14:42

I've tried reading up but it seems to assume a basic level of knowledge - I don't. All I know is Russia invaded Ukraine and I have no idea who or what Wagner is but they are now invading Russia?!

OP posts:
OnlyFins · 24/06/2023 14:48

Placemarking.

WelshNerd · 24/06/2023 14:49

Wagner is a private security/mercenary group. They were working alongside the Russian military but now their leader has turned against Putin. It could result in civil war but there are lots of unknowns at present.

ToBeOrNotToBee · 24/06/2023 14:51

Who ever controls Moscow on Monday wins.

Both sides are baddies.

GeorgeSpeaks · 24/06/2023 14:51

It's rumoured that they are advancing on Moscow and Putin has fled Moscow for St Petersburg.

darkmodeon · 24/06/2023 14:51

Thank you very much so what is it Wagner is doing - what do they want? To overthrow Putin?

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darkmodeon · 24/06/2023 14:52

ToBeOrNotToBee · 24/06/2023 14:51

Who ever controls Moscow on Monday wins.

Both sides are baddies.

Ah. So Wagner winning isn't necessarily good. Would it stop the war in Ukraine though? Is the Russian army big enough to stop them - how big is Wagner?

OP posts:
Missingmyusername · 24/06/2023 14:52

GeorgeSpeaks · 24/06/2023 14:51

It's rumoured that they are advancing on Moscow and Putin has fled Moscow for St Petersburg.

šŸ§flipping eck!

pickledandpuzzled · 24/06/2023 14:52

I'm wondering similar. What would Wagner do if they got rid of putin? What would happen about Ukraine? I'd like to think they'd get some respite.

djivdfj · 24/06/2023 14:53

On the Flightradar24 app 46000 people were tacking a presidential plane leaving from Moscow to St Petersburg an hour or so ago šŸ˜¬

PerkingFaintly · 24/06/2023 14:55

The owner of Wagner, Prigozhin, helped put Putin where he is and maintain him there.

He is also the man who owns/owned a lot of the internet troll factories which try to shape the information space across the world.

So Prigozhin has been extremely powerful for some time.

He was pretty much aligned with Putin's program. And now he's not.

Hoppinggreen · 24/06/2023 14:55

Putin released his attack dogs on The Ukraine and now they have turned around and are attempting to bit him instead

DogInATent · 24/06/2023 14:56

darkmodeon · 24/06/2023 14:51

Thank you very much so what is it Wagner is doing - what do they want? To overthrow Putin?

Wagner was hired as a private contract army by Russia to plug gaps in the Russian army. The Russian government haven't been keeping their side of the deal in terms of suppling ammunition, equipment, etc. There's been a lot of tension between the two. They've both been throwing the toys out of the pram for a while now, but in the last few days it's begun to get serious. Wagner appears to have support within the Russian army, and possibly some support within the FSB. Because of their starting positions in all of this they also have the ability to capture the supplies supporting the Russian army in the Ukraine.

Ukraine are at serious risk of running out of popcorn whilst all this plays out.

ToBeOrNotToBee · 24/06/2023 14:57

darkmodeon · 24/06/2023 14:52

Ah. So Wagner winning isn't necessarily good. Would it stop the war in Ukraine though? Is the Russian army big enough to stop them - how big is Wagner?

Wagner is Putins private army essentially. They get sent wherever Putin wants to exert strong arm tactics without it officially coming from Russia. See what they did in Syria for a general idea of what they're about.

What this does is give Ukraine a bit of breathing space, Russian troops will be isolated from supply chains now, and have no realistic prospect of advancing now.

If Putin survives he's severely weakened. He's shown the people of Russia that he's not the Russian bear he likes to portray.

If Wagner win, who knows what will happen.

pickledandpuzzled · 24/06/2023 14:57

PerkingFaintly · 24/06/2023 14:55

The owner of Wagner, Prigozhin, helped put Putin where he is and maintain him there.

He is also the man who owns/owned a lot of the internet troll factories which try to shape the information space across the world.

So Prigozhin has been extremely powerful for some time.

He was pretty much aligned with Putin's program. And now he's not.

That's scary then. No hope for a change of direction, just a younger healthier leader.

OrangeBlossom28 · 24/06/2023 14:59

@pickledandpuzzled
Maybe younger and healthier but extremely dangerous with it.
It's terrifying what's happening there atm.

sleepyscientist · 24/06/2023 15:00

It's doesn't look like it will help Ukraine unless he bargains a pull back with the west to secure the economy and end sanctions. He's not anti-Ukraine war as he fought for Putin, still hope he gets him even the end of him is a step forward

DogInATent · 24/06/2023 15:01

The reason Wagner had to be hired in the first place is that the Russian army is inherently corrupt, and has never had the men or equipment in reality that it supposedly had on paper. There's a culture of falsifying readiness reports, and the supply situation in normal times is pretty bad. The Russian army is essentially a conscript army not a professional one. Wagner is not a lot better (it's been recruiting from Russian prisons), but PrigozhinĀ has a better understanding of logistics and supply.

Apricotflanday · 24/06/2023 15:02

As long as we or nato don't get involved...
But I feel so sad for the ordinary Russian people, continually battered about by aggressive, dictatorial politicians and power struggles.

INeedAnotherName · 24/06/2023 15:02

He is also the man who owns/owned a lot of the internet troll factories which try to shape the information space across the world.

I didn't know that. I thought it was Putin. So we could basically swap one despot for another. Joy :/

Wheresthebeach · 24/06/2023 15:05

Wagner are a bunch of criminal psychopaths who torture and murder. It is not good news if that are in charge.

pickledandpuzzled · 24/06/2023 15:05

I do remember the recruitment drive where they were really clear that drug abuse and rape of anyone were unacceptable.

It was relatively civilised. As these things go.

darkmodeon · 24/06/2023 15:05

Thank you all. Most appreciated.

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PurplePositivity · 24/06/2023 15:06

Not helpful but whenever I hear it on the radio I can't help but think of Wagner who was on X Factor back in the day!

darkmodeon · 24/06/2023 15:06

pickledandpuzzled · 24/06/2023 15:05

I do remember the recruitment drive where they were really clear that drug abuse and rape of anyone were unacceptable.

It was relatively civilised. As these things go.

I mean who are they recruiting if they have to specify!

OP posts:
heldinadream · 24/06/2023 15:07

Hike yourselves over to the Ukraine threads. Thread 41 nearly finished, thread 42 now underway. Especially see post on thread 42 at 14.35 by @ReleaseTheDucksOfWar.
There are immensely knowledgeable posters on these threads and you can learn a lot.

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