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Can someone please explain the Russia/Wagner thing really simply please?

110 replies

darkmodeon · 24/06/2023 14:42

I've tried reading up but it seems to assume a basic level of knowledge - I don't. All I know is Russia invaded Ukraine and I have no idea who or what Wagner is but they are now invading Russia?!

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ThursdayFreedom · 24/06/2023 17:58

darkmodeon · 24/06/2023 16:41

I'm so glad I asked - I thought it was a good thing .

@darkmodeon
sadly not. It may Give Ukraine a breather & a chance to regroup etc

but as much as I'd live Putin to be 'taken out' THIS situation could lead to things escalating.

RudsyFarmer · 24/06/2023 17:58

They’re a pack of rabid dogs that Putin
called in to help out as the leader was a close confident. The leader is now absolutely furious the Ukraine invasion has fallen to pieces and Putin turned against them and tried to kill then. So he’s now trying to start a military coup and get Putin gone. Although that sounds great what that means is a huge country destabilised and the worry is China’s troops could march in (one theory) and gain a massive lump of territory.

Honeybeegood2mee · 24/06/2023 17:59

Nomorenonbinary · 24/06/2023 17:32

Prigozhin doesn't sound any better.

  • Prigozhin on Friday accused Russia's military leadership of killing a "huge amount" of his mercenary forces in a strike on a Wagner camp and vowed to retaliate. Russia’s Ministry of Defense denied Prigozhin’s claims.

It is not about who is better, but the nasty side of dictatorship and the nasty things they do to their fellow men. Putin's Russia is known for poisoning it's own people if they disagree. People have disappeared because they disagreed. I don't care what happens to Putin. Hope the monster goes soon.

MustardChair · 24/06/2023 18:00

It's aterrifying thing. Putin is a madman. If Wagner take control you have another psychopathic madman with a grudge at the helm. Someone on the Ukraine invasion thread talked about how hard it will be for the Wagner group to run a nation and interact with other nations and keep the rule of law. They won't care about such things, This will be pure anarchy and chaos. Murderous anarchy and chaos. You don't want murderous anarchy and chaos and a whole bunch of nuclear buttons within the same room.

Putin's no good but this is a different kind of diabolical.

Honeybeegood2mee · 24/06/2023 18:02

Putin a different type of biobolical? 😂

RudsyFarmer · 24/06/2023 18:03

It’s getting very Game of Thrones.

I’d like to know how filling a bath with water helps in the event of a nuclear fallout though? Is this just so we can drown ourselves?

cassiatwenty · 24/06/2023 18:05

MissyB1 · 24/06/2023 16:11

I sometimes wonder if in 2019 some idiot said “Gosh the world is really boring right now, wish something exciting would happen….”
Well they must be happy now it’s been non stop fun ever since 😳

Same but 2016 instead of 2019

ReleaseTheDucksOfWar · 24/06/2023 18:05

Prigozhin is the head of the mercenary army that when they feel someone has betrayed them, clingfilms them to a post or block and crushes their head with a sledgehammer. Happened several times at the least.

When they took Soledar, a salt-mining town near to Bakhmut, they found a cellar with 300 - 400 people including children. The orders were to make sure no one got out alive, and they did.

Wagner is a terrifying organisation known for either arranging coups or preventing coups in Africa, depending on who pays them the most.

Prigozhin used to be loyal to Putin but has been increasingly critical of the MoD and in the mid-spring started to criticise Putin himself indirectly and then more directly.

It's been claimed he has been planning this for a few months.

There is no one to block the Wagnerians heading towards Moscow unless there is an army airlifted in. 5 planes landed in Belorus, presumably to carry belorussan or perhaps Russian soldiers back (depending on who is available). Other than this, there are almost no soldiers in Moscow so there's a good chance Prigozhin will make there.

There are reputedly negotiations going on between Prig and Putin at the moment. However, Putin is looking extremely weak.

Either way, Russia's in for a period of worse instability. If Putin survives, there's going to be purges of pro-Prig people; if Prig gets into power, there'll be purges the other way. Both leaders are taking Russia into a more militaristic direction, but Russia is also becoming weaker.

For Ukraine, I don't know how much difference this will make but it may fuck up already low morale in some Russian soldiers and it will probably make supplying them harder. Right now I should think the Ukrainian leadership are watching with hanging jaws, popcorn and a lot of fast planning.

Honeybeegood2mee · 24/06/2023 18:07

https://www.businessinsider.com/list-of-people-putin-is-suspected-of-assassinating-2016-3?r=US&IR=T

Putin is not mad, he is evil. Dictators are evil and they somehow get so popular that they combust in their own evilness.

MustardChair · 24/06/2023 18:08

Thanks @ReleaseTheDucksOfWar

I confess I am absolutely terrified of this development.

beeonmybonnett · 24/06/2023 18:09

PurplePositivity · 24/06/2023 15:06

Not helpful but whenever I hear it on the radio I can't help but think of Wagner who was on X Factor back in the day!

Me too lol

beeonmybonnett · 24/06/2023 18:09

This is making me anxious like I was at the start of the Ukraine invasion. Im worried we will be nuked

ReleaseTheDucksOfWar · 24/06/2023 18:18

The chances if Prigozhin gets into power are slightly higher that he will use battlefield nukes but at this point there's no reason to think all out nuclear war is going to happen. Or all out conventional war. At this moment it's Russians fighting Russians inside Russia. Not even many deaths at all reported atm, if any.

NoraBattysCurlers · 24/06/2023 18:19

MissyB1 · 24/06/2023 16:11

I sometimes wonder if in 2019 some idiot said “Gosh the world is really boring right now, wish something exciting would happen….”
Well they must be happy now it’s been non stop fun ever since 😳

This happened in 2016.

MeinKraft · 24/06/2023 18:20

beeonmybonnett · 24/06/2023 18:09

This is making me anxious like I was at the start of the Ukraine invasion. Im worried we will be nuked

Well we weren't nuked then so we probably won't be nuked now.

EmmaEmerald · 24/06/2023 18:23

RudsyFarmer · 24/06/2023 17:58

They’re a pack of rabid dogs that Putin
called in to help out as the leader was a close confident. The leader is now absolutely furious the Ukraine invasion has fallen to pieces and Putin turned against them and tried to kill then. So he’s now trying to start a military coup and get Putin gone. Although that sounds great what that means is a huge country destabilised and the worry is China’s troops could march in (one theory) and gain a massive lump of territory.

So my thought was that Wagner thinks Putin isn't doing well enough in Ukraine and wants to take the job on himself, is that a possibility?

ReleaseTheDucksOfWar · 24/06/2023 18:23

There are reports from reliable sources now that the President of Belorus, President Lukashenko (a dictator himself) has been negotiating between Wagner's leader Prigozhin and Putin. If this is accurate, the civil war could be over.

It still leaves a lot of questions and Putin far weaker.

Moonandstarzz · 24/06/2023 18:27

I feel so sorry for the Russian people. Especially the younger generation who want a western style democracy..
They were glad of Navalny as he was opposition but at the same time did not want Navalny as their leader as he still wouldn't bring the change they want & need.. Prigozhin must be a frightening prospect for them.

RicciardoPerez · 24/06/2023 18:43

That didn't last long...

Wagner chief agrees to END his mercenary group's march on Moscow
mol.im/a/12230141

Hardtime · 24/06/2023 18:47

RudsyFarmer · 24/06/2023 18:03

It’s getting very Game of Thrones.

I’d like to know how filling a bath with water helps in the event of a nuclear fallout though? Is this just so we can drown ourselves?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Protect_and_Survive

14 days supply of non-radioactive water, hence fill the bath. The '70s and '80s were a hoot while we waited for Mutually Assured Destruction.

Protect and Survive - Wikipedia

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Protect_and_Survive

RudsyFarmer · 24/06/2023 19:17

EmmaEmerald · 24/06/2023 18:23

So my thought was that Wagner thinks Putin isn't doing well enough in Ukraine and wants to take the job on himself, is that a possibility?

Well I think right now he’s fighting for Russia. I’ve read that he’s talking about the country being bankrupt. I expect his main focus is Russia and there’s a good chance he’ll pull out of Ukraine if he takes over.

I honestly can’t see Putin just rolling over though. He’d rather nuke his own country than he seen as weak.

RudsyFarmer · 24/06/2023 19:18

Hang on. The latest news is that the coup is over and they E agreed to turn back. I’m going to guess a lot of money changed hands.

Wiseflower · 24/06/2023 19:51

Putin stays in power after threatening to "crush" his opponent.

Outofthepark · 24/06/2023 19:54

IMO Prig wouldn't last if he toppled Putin as the elite think he's too barbaric and rough, and would dispose of him pretty fast. Who knows what / who would be the replacement though.

Honeybeegood2mee · 24/06/2023 19:57

So it seems! Over the years, so many plots against Putin and he still remains the almighty power of Russia! Hoped the loose cannon would topple the mad dictator, but nah, he will stay for ever. I am sure Russians will rejoice🙄