Can someone please explain the Russia/Wagner thing really simply please?

[darkmodeon]

I've tried reading up but it seems to assume a basic level of knowledge - I don't. All I know is Russia invaded Ukraine and I have no idea who or what Wagner is but they are now invading Russia?!

I don't think there is a choice here. It is not either Putin or this man. It is about stopping Putin the mad dictator by his own men.

So Wagner winning isn't necessarily good. Would it stop the war in Ukraine though?

It would definitely not be good if Wagner won. Just another psychopath in charge.

These criminals are being led by someone who was Putin's "caterer". He is not a criminal

He is a convicted criminal, and faces charges in the US.

Me too, in fact Wagbo is what springs to mind.
(I can't help it and I know the situation is serious.)

Prigozhin is a criminal in theft, defrauding. Putin is a much bigger criminal in this war of choice.
On 17 March 2023, as part of its investigation, the International Criminal Court issued arrest warrants for Vladimir Putin, the President of Russia, and Maria Lvova-Belova, Russian Commissione

Yes, he is a criminal of theft and fraud in the US.
However Putin is the biggest criminal!
On 17 March 2023, as part of its investigation, the International Criminal Court issued arrest warrants for Vladimir Putin, the President of Russia, and Maria Lvova-Belova, Russian Commissioner.
The court has enough evidence to lock him up indefinately. Maybe Prigozhin might hand him over to the ICC!

Same 😂 I have only read the headlines and assumed Wagner was a person although probably not the X Factor guy…

Is there a possibility that Prigozhin could broker some sort of deal to end the war in Ukraine in return for financial gains? Or is it more likely that he will continue the fighting?

We have had enough of Dictators like Hitler, Mussolini, Stalin, Franco of Spain,.....are war-mongering w**kers - and now Putin! The wars are their choice as they plough through countries, destroying humanity in their name.

I'm so glad I asked - I thought it was a good thing .

Yes, he is a criminal of theft and fraud in the US.* However Putin is the biggest criminal!*
On 17 March 2023, as part of its investigation, the International Criminal Court issued arrest warrants for Vladimir Putin, the President of Russia, and Maria Lvova-Belova, Russian Commissioner.
The court has enough evidence to lock him up indefinately. Maybe Prigozhin might hand him over to the ICC!

Yes, I wasn't saying that he was bad and that putin was good! And I imagine if he were to win it certainly wouldn't end well for putin. But it certainly isn't a situation where a good guy is coming in to defeat the bad guy. I doubt him winning would lead to a nice peaceful time in Russia.

With Putin around, it will never be "nice" or "peaceful". He is one of the biggest criminals and a dictator of Russia.

I'm not arguing with that. Nor am I sitting around thinking "ooh I hope putin wins!"

Prigozhin has been quoted as saying that the Russian leadership is weak as they have refused to use tactical nuclear weapons in Ukraine, so he's very bad news indeed for Ukraine and the rest of the world!

It's a good thing in that it will hopefully take a lot of pressure off Ukraine, and may allow the Ukrainian forces to make some significant advances at less cost.

Basically a head of a mercenary organisation that can kill, rape, terrorise without the Russians being involved. Now he is prob hoping to get rich. Just put them both in a sealed room and fight themselves to ďeath. No doubt Putin has specialists in wet work.

Describing Wagner as "private" is way off base. They're not a mercenary outfit in the sense of e.g. US mercenary troops. Wagner have a Russian state military intelligence background. They played a role as part of the astroturf "separatism" in Donbass in 2014 that was essentially spearheaded by Russian crooks and spooks - google one Igor Strelkov a.k.a Girkin who was running one of the breakaway "republics" for a bit and is also associated with Wagner. They've since come to play a major role in Russian foreign operations as well. As in Ukraine, a lot of it is about plausible deniability, hence setting them up ad a pseudo-independent outfit. Looks like that's now coming back to bite them in the ass.

Yeah that was me. Sorry bout that...

Some background information on Prigozhin

https://twitter.com/BBCRosAtkins/status/1672549368207998976?s=20

Putin is accusing Wagner mercenary boss Yevgeny Prigozhin of treason. Prigozhin calls it a 'march for justice'. As the story escalates, here's a video from May about how, from the 80s to now, Prigozhin went from prison, to catering, to the Wagner group.

Prigozhin doesn't sound any better.

@HangerLaneGyratorySystem

only if you can get him in it & hold him under.

Im just amazed he's not an EX already!

even if (and there isn't) an immediate direct threat to us, it takes a special kind of cunt to say that to someone who has just come out of hospital & likely feels vulnerable anyway.

Tell him to go out & stay out!! Permanently!!

He's lost the fucking plot!!

torches & matches, not normal bedfellows!! 😂🤣
he an idiot, get him

out of your life ASAP & fight any shared responsibility for children, if you have any.

keep a record of this fuckwittery!!

@Wiseflower

'not a criminal'. Say what??

he's very much a criminal.

Prigozhin is a dangerous psychopath, and if he overthrows Putin, life would get a lot more dangerous. Him having access to the nuclear button is hugely worrying, according to what I've read so far.

It's good for Ukraine because the Russian military are going to be concentrated on stopping Wagner right now, so they're going to have to take their eyes off Ukraine in the very short term, at the very least.

I think you've elaborated my point beyond the title's brief @GrumpyPanda but I'm not off base to describe them as private.