Friend has caused huge offence in our friendship/hobby group?

[CheesyOnion]

He didn't mean to but what he said was hugely offensive.

People were discussing the achiements of a woman who is a single mum, has a busy job and a child with severe disabilities, a teenager who has to be watched every minute. She is a amazing all round and especially in how hard she trains and what she achieves in the hobby.

Anyway, this man who I don't think realised how offensive what he said was, although he really should have (a man in his 40s with children of his own) said something along the lines of "yes, I don't known how she does it and she handles her <very offensive word> daughter brilliantly too".

It's a word that I heard a lot at school but hasn't been socially acceptable for several decades now.

No one is ready to forgive him. Would you be?

If the word was spastic like several suggested then the question is 'is the daughter spastic?'.

If she is then its not actually offensive (spastic is literally a medical term for those of us who suffer uncontrolled muscle spasms and yes I'm spastic myself). Irradiating our diagnosis's because they make YOU uncomfortable is not very PC.

If the daughter is NOT spastic so it was used incorrectly I would counter with 'I think you mean actual diagnosis'.

If it was 'Spacker' which was my first assumption since you said common in school and not since then I would roll eyes and think he was immature and rude but not enough to cause a blow out drama by taking offense on someone else's behalf because then it makes it all about you and your discomfort again not the friend or child.

Life is too short to cut people out because they made a mistake with a word.💯

I have a friend who has a daughter with a severe learning disability. (Man 50+ at the time and daughter 30s) I was shocked to hear him call her 'handicapped'. Obviously it is his daughter so I found it more shocking that he didn't know that term is not acceptable but he genuinely didn't. - And didn't understand why. I explained why - and even that shocked him.

He has never used that word again - in front of me anyway, but I find it easy to see why people who have very little contact with disability in any form have little to no idea abouot acceptable language. Language evolves and education is the key

For me it would be about how he behaves going forward

Post #5 from OP. 10 minutes after post #1.

If he has apologised and fully understood what a horrible way to talk about people it is, AND he understands that he needs to not use offensive language about or in the company of your group , and if he doesn’t now fuck around calling you all ‘woke’ and ‘snowflake’ then I would accept him back into the group and move on.

The point of challenging this stuff, surely, is to make people understand. If you cut them off whether or not they mend their ways there’s no incentive for them to do the work.

I have a child with a condition that attracts a derogatory term. I don’t know anyone who would say anything offensive (except in total ignorance of the correct language) but some have made me wince with well meaning not-quite-right stuff.

Was he showing off? Hopefully the ferocious reaction of the group will have stopped him in his tracks.

There is a world of difference between 'handicapped' and 'sp*zz'. The latter has never been acceptable, and the former (even now) isn't anywhere near as offensive as the latter.

I think you can be offended by what someone says and not cut them off. My mother - who is very very old - actually referred to my grandchildren as mongrels. A few decades back I'd have said mixed race - and I told her that was the usual/preferred term.. Now, I understand from the Oxfam guide to inclusive language that biracial is preferred. Another irony is that I myself am mixed race. My father and my mother have different ethnic backgrounds. But because they are/were both white, clearly my mother doesn't think any of these terms applied to me.

Op unfortunately so many people don't think it's offensive.

The literally don't understand. I thus cases he has apologised and I think at a quiet moment explain exactly why it's so outdated and wrong.

So "handicapped" is not acceptable to some people?
I describe myself as handicapped - everyone understands the term.

Hello didn't say it to be offensive is what I mean.

If you said he did jokey actions and made a strange face... The yes but he was innocent.

I say this as someone absolutely terrified hot on these words. Unfortunately I've had to suffer pops rich freinds literally acting out a s** rock star dance. Vile vile man

It's become very outdated, though you have every right to describe yourself however you want, I'd have been picked up at work for saying it and I've not work in nearly a decade. I don't think it's considered "offensive" so much as not what you use

I cannot believe people are thinking that this ignorant fool used the word in a considered and medically correct way.

People on here really do fall over themselves to defend the indefensible! But but but…

I don’t think he needs ostracising for life. But I would be a little more wary of him from now on. No excuse for a 40-something in the UK not knowing this; I expect he knew he was being offensive. This word is not sued by decent people these days; it just isn’t.

I just asked my 16y if the word was coming back. He looked appalled and said, no way.

I feel a weird heavy sad disappointment when people screw up like this. No pleasure at all. And relief? How odd.

Do you not feel anything when your kid with cerebral palsy/disability gets called this s word?

He has been ‘corrected’ and I’m sure won’t use it again. He wasn’t intending to be derogatory.

Do you not feel anything when your kid with cerebral palsy/disability gets called this s word?

My ds with a rare genetic disability with spastic in the name calls his own limbs spastic.

I won't accept people avoiding the word because some twats decided to use it as an insult. Why should ds not acknowledge his own experience?

The shortened version is different because it isn't a medical name. But I still think if someone didn't intend to offend education is better.

There is also the Ian Dury song Spasticus Autisticus. It seems to me that there is no universally agreed 'right' language, though politeness would dictate that a term someone who has a disability/and their family dislike/s, is to be avoided.

What? Where has anyone said spastic limbs should not be called spastic if that’s the accurate medical description? Who said that your son should not be able to ‘acknowledge his own experience’? I certainly haven’t.

He would very enthusiasticly educate them, he wouldn't cut them off for a genuine mistake.

My ten year old son has spastic diplegic cerebral palsy, it's very much still used today in medical terms.

@ClaireandTed It's written that way as a diagnosis as it means something being in spasm etc. But they would never refer to someone as 'a spastic' as a diagnosis, that has been a playground insult only for many decades.

That's completely different. Spastic colon is a legitimate use of the word as it describes what the colon does- it goes into spasms. "Spastic colon" is still used. In some ways it's a better description than irritable bowel- it's more accurate.

Exactly. Various conditions cause spasms but that's a million miles from calling a person "a spastic"

I think it's kind of sad that everybody is tolerant until someone says something that they don't like. None of us know this blokes back story. I have some cousins in the UK who have been dragged up in a really deprived area, judging by the things them and their mates post on social media I doubt they would have a clue what the correct wording around disability is, they wouldn't have anyone to correct them either.

They aren't bad people but they don't live in the same kind of world I live in or that lots of mumsnetters live in. They can barely read or write, they arent spending their time agonising over correct phrasing. It'd be sad if people shunned them because they hadn't had the life experience that tells them what words are bad and what words are good.

It's easy to be black and white about this kind of thing, but I think sometimes realising that what is obvious to you might not be obvious to everyone single other person is the way forward.

@Freeballing I think they'd still know calling someone a spastic/sp*z is wrong.

They wouldn't be up on the newest changes in PC speak, but that particular term not being good isn't new in the uk. I was born in the late 70s and by the time we were old enough to be aware of stuff like that- say, 10 or whatever, we would've known that was an insult, because it was used as one.

Yes of course they wouldn't, I never said they did?

Only that I know my boy could be called one as an insult, so I make sure I talk about spasticity and his condition to normalise the word for him.

I was replying to someone who said they didn't know if the word 'spastic' was still used in medical terms. I was in no way downplaying the use of the word as an insult, quite the opposite.