Why are marriage proposals still a thing?

[SleepingMurder]

I don't get it one bit. DH and I discussed getting married, then started planning for it together, as we would with any major life decision. You wouldn't leave the timing of a major life decision or even whether it was going to happen to just one person in the relationship, why would it be any different when it comes to marriage? And yet I see so many posts about is he going to propose, when is he going to propose - and this is often after living together and having children! Surely there's no need to be coy about it? Why would you leave such a major decision that affects both people equally completely in the hands of one person (in 99% of cases, the male in a heterosexual relationship)?

Help me understand, wise folks of MN.

I don't understand why it is a problem to you or other people 😕. I am utterly confused by some posts in MN world

Some people may not like the fuss of being proposed to, some people do. Some people discuss marriage prior, some don't. Why do people on MN find fault with everything just because they're not to their preference?

Personally, we just said 'shall we get married?' We agreed and set a date, but something within me wishes I had a proper proposal.

Also, why is it assumed that it's always the man? Surely, a woman can propose to whomever she wants to, should she fancy 😕

Exactly. Since when are people not allowed to discuss things, isn't that the point of a forum? I haven't insulted anyone who likes the idea of romantic surprise proposals. They do sound mostly sound lovely when they happen, they're not for me personally but I understand everyone is different. Nor am I being 'fake' in not understanding why people want to wait to be proposed to. I'm just genuinely interested in hearing people's opinions.

I do just find it very strange that women will decide to get married, a big legal commitment, but then hang around waiting for the man to decide when that gets to happen. I know some people have commented 'I just knew he would though!' - but then we see threads where women are sitting wondering when as it's been so long now since they discussed it etc.

I'm sorry about your previous abusive relationship. I'm not being judgemental. I just do worry about women who move into a man's house that isn't theres, and then have children with him, before marriage. Again, we've all seen the threads on here when it's gone wrong and they're left with the children and none of the financial rights that marriage would have given them.

How nice to read this thread. We decided together to get married. But it feels awkward when all this time later people still ask about the proposal- and judge that there wasnt one.

Beats me, when I was married we just discussed whether we should get married or not and then got married.

I honestly think it's up to the individual and wouldn't judge someone for wanting the big romantic proposal or white wedding. My husband and I got engaged by drunken mutual agreement in Wetherspoons then went next door to a pawn shop where I got a 15 quid ring, which was perfect for us but if anyone makes a different choice I wouldn't judge it!

You are overthinking it all. It's not that women are not interested in feminism blah blah because they might like a marriage proposal. The vitriol does come from people like yourselves who want to show other people the right way to live. I couldn't give a toss what people want to do but I do give a toss about their right to do something without people coming down on them for it.

Isn't it from the medieval times?! Post selling your daughter for cattle era, more of the knights sweeping ladies off their feet on bended knee?

It's from centuries ago - society has evolved
do women need to be swept off their feet by men?

A proposal is actually quite belittling and disrespectful of women - they don't get a say. The man decides if and when to propose marriage. And even if it's just a symbol, it's a symbol of the above. Nothing romantic or nice about it.

I think what's mainly coming over here, if we cut through some of the angst in the thread, is that the proposals are less the issue than the passive notion of a woman 'waiting' for a man to make that decision for them both. OP's comment about leaving such a major decision in the hands of one party are bang to rights. If some women unquestionably accept a patriarchal tradition that's detrimental to their own legal rights and protection, then exploring the reasons for that acceptance is all well and good.

I'm financially independent and never particularly cared about marriage. DH, however, did, and I love him so was happy to roll with that. We had The Discussion five years in, and agreed that at some point we'd do it, but life and other priorities took over. When DH asked what we should do to celebrate a decade together, I spontaneously proposed to him. Our wedding was a small overseas affair with only four guests present.

I can see, looking at the many (fascinating and perplexing in equal measure) wedding threads on MN that I'm in the minority, but it does seem to be a growing minority. The level of stress, entitlement and deep-cutting disagreements seen over weddings - seen it in my extended family too - are IMO simply not worth the fallout, IMO.

The in-laws still haven't forgiven me for keeping my real family name. It's been 15 years. Tradition and convention are still powerful controlling mechanisms, which is the reason I shun them for the most part. But those who do this will come up against a surprise if they think no one's bothered, as should rightly be the case in 2023. They are. And they'll quickly start trying to put you back in your box.

Come on, you know that is not how most proposals take place nowadays. Of course there are arranged marriages but we're not really talking about that here, are we?

What is your real family name though? Your father's or your mother's and her mother's?

No. Mine.

That's not clear - where did it come from?

That's not clear - where did it come from?

My family of origin. My birth. My history, for better or worse. The name I've carried though life, the name I've become known for in a niche professional field, the name I've published under. Mine.

It would never have crossed my mind to relinquish MY real identity to take on another mantle of a family with whom I don't share that history, those origins. It defies logic to my way of thinking that anybody would.

It's interesting that no one has ever suggested to my brother that his name isn't 'really' his. This only happens when you're female.

And my above point applies - about women who resist this expectation being put directly back into their boxes.

Waste of time with me. I'll just keep pushing the lid off.

Yes but the point I am making is that if your real family name surname is your father's surname then did your mother submit to the patriarchy/have no interest in feminism blah blah? Maybe they blended their surnames?

Why are you pushing this point? No offence, but what on earth has it got to do with you?

I'm pushing the point to show that some of you are going on about feminism and misogny in terms of taking a man's name etc yet you may well carry your father's surname so patriarchy? How is it that different? Why don't you carry your mother's name?

It's not a personal question. I'm not asking you to say my name is Jones. I am asking though if you carry a patriarchal name which you obviously don't want to answer.

It is MY name. The rest of the BS you're associating with this is entirely irrelevant.

Thank you and goodnight.

I agree OP.

Surely as women who want to be seen as equal, we should be viewing this as a joint decision and commitment.

Not waiting around like princesses waiting for a proposal.

Just WTF.

I think they're a bit cringe in this day and age. I agree about making a major life decision together . It's even more off if you do a proposal if you have both discussed it. Like yes we've already agreed that why do a proposal? I think they had a function but it's not one we really need anymore and tbh people who cling to it just feel a bit like they're clinging to old fashioned patriarchal ideas.

Can I just say that I agree with every word you've posted here and in your previous posts @SerafinasGoose

Thinking is not the same thing as overthinking.

It's OK to think about things and to question them, rather than just going along with them "because it's what you're meant to do".

And yes, waiting for/ wanting a man to propose to you, taking his name, being 'given away', wearing a white dress and veil, calling yourself 'Mrs' etc. are all fundamentally anti-feminist choices. It is OK to call them out as such.

P.s. I meant to add that these expectations are far from harmless. I know women who married really awful, abusive, dishonest men because they were so scared of being left 'on the shelf'.

I know many women who've had administrative and financial hassles due to changing their names, and many others who have lost touch with old friends or lost out on professional opportunities because they were no longer identifiable as the same person.

I know many men who, on a deep level, see their wives as part of their possessions, and these traditions all encourage the continuation of those beliefs.

Until 1991 a married woman could not prosecute her husband for rape. She was fundamentally considered by the law to be part of him. Previously, she could not own property or have a job.

I think it is very much worth asking why any women now would perpetuate this kind of inequality.

And yes, waiting for/ wanting a man to propose to you, taking his name, being 'given away', wearing a white dress and veil, calling yourself 'Mrs' etc. are all fundamentally anti-feminist choices

Bollocks, will big brass knobs on.

I do understand what you’re saying, in my case coming room a coercive and controlling relationship my eyes were very open and my decisions thought over. But many are blindsided by love I do understand.

Before we had the baby we talked about me going on the mortgage so the house would be mine too; but I said I didn’t want this, I wanted us to buy a home together that was ours and both our input. We knew the house he lived in we would our grow. We had a baby first before marriage due to my age. Nothing other. We got engaged almost as soon as I was pregnant and before the wedding he sold his home and I we bought our house together.

So no matter how we got here or what way around, we’re now married with two kids, and both own a lovely 4 bed detached in a lovely little village. Only thing missing is a dog 😂