Why are marriage proposals still a thing?

[SleepingMurder]

I don't get it one bit. DH and I discussed getting married, then started planning for it together, as we would with any major life decision. You wouldn't leave the timing of a major life decision or even whether it was going to happen to just one person in the relationship, why would it be any different when it comes to marriage? And yet I see so many posts about is he going to propose, when is he going to propose - and this is often after living together and having children! Surely there's no need to be coy about it? Why would you leave such a major decision that affects both people equally completely in the hands of one person (in 99% of cases, the male in a heterosexual relationship)?

Help me understand, wise folks of MN.

@EvelynKatie

I don't see it as the woman waiting around for her man to decide 100% of the time I think it depends on the couples, that might be the case sometimes and not other times.

For us, we both knew we wanted marriage and that was in our future. We were early 20s so I was happy to see what the future held and was thrilled when DH proposed. I didn't see it as waiting around for him to make the decision, I saw it as us enjoying our relationship and just going with the flow.

Had we been in a different stage of life, perhaps we'd have done what OP and her partner did! It's not one rule fits all. If I'd been mid 30s with DC and it was that important to me, I'd probably have had a similar discussion but that wasn't our situation.

The only women I know who have been waiting around for a proposal are with men who are totally honest about not wanting marriage / not thinking it's important, and the women are staying hoping they magically change their minds. Or they're people who haven't done it the traditional way (dating, living together, engaged, married, DC etc) and then want to get married ten years in with multiple DC and a DP who isn't interested. But that's just their individual situations and they've got just as much power to go out and propose if they wanted too 🤷🏻‍♀️

Same with letting someone else pick out rings, even if you give them 'hints' - again, this is something you'll have for the rest of your life so to have minimal agency in it seems odd.

Again many people discuss this

Only, it took him a couple of years longer than she wanted to eventually propose. They're married now, but she was very stressed at times waiting for him to do it and it set back their plans to have children when she wanted as well. That lack of agency is puzzling to me in a relationship that is supposedly of equals.

Did she not talk to him?

But that's the issue isn't it, the old fashioned thing of a woman waiting around for her man to decide when they should be married or not. Like you say, it's a huge commitment so why is it the man gets to decide when that commitment happens?

I don't know anyone who waited around tbh. I wouldn't have bought a home or had dc without marriage so dh knew that years before.

I knew DH was going to propose. It was fun guessing when! He nearly did it several times before he finally did it apparently. We knew we wanted to be married and roughly when. (It was a couple of years after the proposal, we had other stuff to do first)

However if you and wondering whether they will or won't propose you do need to have a discussion.

Because Patriarchy.

Same with letting someone else pick out rings, even if you give them 'hints' - again, this is something you'll have for the rest of your life so to have minimal agency in it seems odd.

I actually feel the opposite way about this - I'd have been really disappointed if DH had proposed without a ring and we'd had to go choose it together. I didn't give him any hints (partly because I didn't think he'd be buying one for some years to come). He chose the perfect, most 'me' ring - it showed how well he knew me.

I also had no agency in choosing the earrings, necklace and bracelet that I wear daily, all of which were gifts from him, and all of which I absolutely love and would've chosen myself.

I'm sure my DH would have been delighted and relieved if I'd taken the initiative in discussing marriage, but after having had a couple of between-marriages relationships with men who had love-bombed and future-faked me into letting them into my life and then gone, "Oh, I was never that into you, I was only with you because I could see it was what YOU wanted," a few months later, I wasn't prepared to marry anyone who wasn't committed enough to be the one to propose. I didn't make him do the bended knee, sparkly ring thing and he asked permission from my children rather than my father.

I do get the romance aspect of it. I know people who decided to get married and then subsequently did a proposal just to have that romantic experience, but the decision to marry and when had already been made. It's just bizarre that in 2023 couples discuss every aspect of life and come to a mutual agreement on timing, but for this decision which is arguably of the biggest you can make in life, the man has the final say, if not all the power when it comes to if/when. Even if you're on the same page roughly, devolving the timing to be the realm of the man solely seems very much out of alignment with a modern relationship. And people who say they're 'traditional' when it comes to this aspect, but are happy to buy a home together and live in it for years without being married? Seems very selective.

I know many women who were left wondering when their partners were going to propose, so it's hardly uncommon to have angst over it. We see it often enough on MN, the is he or isn't he or when.

But women are still waiting around for the man in most cases? Even if you've discussed marriage will be 'at some point in the future' - it's still not arranging the date of the marriage until the man has decided to then propose. If it's a case of 'I'd like to get married, OK I agree, what sort of date/type of wedding, lets start planning' and the man then says 'OK but can I do a romantic traditional proposal in the mean time' then fine. But I've seen countless threads on MN where it's discussed marriage is in the future, then years down the line the woman having to constantly ask the man when he's going to do his proposal etc.
I know a lot of woman seem to like this idea of waiting around for the proposal to happen, I just find it strange it's still quite common in today's society.

Why are white dresses still a thing? Veils? Engagement rings? Changing your name? Being ‘given away’? I assume you did none of these things but you’re aware most people still do some of them.

There are lots of traditions that don’t make much sense now but people still like them and follow them. Surely this isn’t genuinely mystifying?

I don’t know anyone who hadn’t already discussed marriage, but also can’t think of any couples where there wasn’t a formal proposal along with various other traditional bits and bobs.

This is what I'm trying to say and you've explained better. Having a discussion on marriage in the future, but then waiting for the man to do his proposal before you consider the date of the wedding, is very different from having a discussion on marriage, agreeing a date together etc. then the man in the mean time doing the traditional proposal.

And even if you both discussed it, how much did you actually specify the timing? It's unlikely that it was down to anything too granular from what I've observed, which still leaves a lot of room for angst. Even if there's no angst per se, wouldn't you want to know when one of the biggest commitments you'll ever make is going to happen and when it's going to happen? If both people are entering into a marriage on equal terms, why would only one person know exactly when it would happen? I wouldn't let DH decide when we're going to have children, even if we're 'on the same page' - we'd decide mutually when we want it to happen and work towards that.

I believe there were proposals long before that somehow

Surely all options are ok, no? I would say that most people who are proposed to have discussed getting married at some point beforehand. My sister in law proposed to my brother. No proposal and just agreeing amongst yourself is obviously also fine.

Everyone is different. Looking back I think I'm glad I was proposed to. My husband is a couple of years younger than me and it was important to me that he didn't do things earlier than he would want to and when he proposed to me, I knew it was because he was ready. I on the other hand placed no importance on the actual wedding. I found the marriage the most important part., but everyone is different, as they should be. Nobody is 'cringe' if they are happy with their own experience.

The ones that scramble my brain on here are where the woman won’t even bring it up, or does but accepts being fobbed off, because she or her boyfriend are oh so traditional - despite having sex, living together and usually having a couple of kids. She’s often given up work cos kids.

So they have managed to make big decisions by mutual agreement but marriage isn’t one of them and is only absolutely up to the man.

It must come from insecurity, they don’t feel he’s committed and want proof. They don’t want to rush him. They don’t want to look pushy or demanding. If he did it because she brought it up too much it wouldn’t be genuine.

No idea. I can’t get my head around it.

I don’t know why it bothers you so much?can you explain?

we agreed to get married , rough timing, we went away for a weekend, he proposed, it was lovely and I chose the ring, we went shopping together. Then we sorted the marriage timing,

it really isn’t hurting you if others choose this route and not everyone needs to do no romance just purely practicality. You can have both.

I understand everyone is different, I just never understand how the age old thing of a woman waiting around for a man to propose is still a thing. As you said, you were waiting for your now-husband to decide he's ready, what if he wasn't ready for years? Would you have hung around waiting for a proposal? Like you said, not bothered about the actual wedding but the marriage is the important part, so why wait for the man to decide when that will happen?

It’s not hurting OP, it’s hurting the women posting in vain hope on here most weeks wondering when he’ll pop the question and too afraid of looking bolshy to just tell their partners they want to get married.

Would you then have gone ahead and booked the registry office or whatever, or was it a case of waiting for him to propose until you booked it?

Why is marriage still a thing?

We'd discussed marriage after two years. DH wanted to propose. We used to climb the Via Ferrata and he wanted to propose at the top of a mountain.
He proposed after a shag in our tent caused a tent pole to snap and I knew where all the repair gear was.
He wanted to give me a 'story' of the proposal for when got home.

This. I have to say that this is one of the very few things about which I have an 'only on Mn' response. I recognise that posters on here do exist in the real world, too, but the overwhelming majority of the women I know, of my own generation (50), if they married, married without the proposal (let alone the staged 'surprise' proposal/angst about a proposal/ultimata about a proposal that comes up so regularly on here).

And worth saying that proposals are NB in Austen novels because, in an era without education, careers, voting opportunities etc for women, who you married (to the extent to which it was your own decision) was one of the few determining life decisions most women could make, and it was as much an economic decision as a 'romantic' one in the modern sense. None of those conditions exist any more.

I personally didn't want to have children until after I was married, had he not proposed within a reasonable amount of time, I would have discussed it with him. If he had doubts about it at that point, I would have moved on.

I think my point is that there is noting wrong with being proposed to and there is nothing wrong with not being proposed to. To insult the other is just a bit much I think.

As a feminist, the idea of asking a man for my hand in marriage most definitely isn't my thing, but if there are women that would like that tradition and their husband to be does it, I presume it is with the best of intentions so don't judge others for wanting or having a different experience to me.