Two dogs shot in London by police

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I’m usually very empathetic and recently even posted on an animal testing post but I just can’t find any compassion in my heart for out of control and dangerous animals at the moment, it’s just getting ridiculous. I obviously feel for the owner who I hope gets some kind of mental support/ counselling.

It’s so confusing as I’m usually so compassionate, I guess having a small child and the number of dog attacks does something to your brain? I hate walking past Bullies with my baby in the pram. Even normal dogs I’m starting to get very hesitant about. For context I usually cry if I step on a silver worm in the bathroom so this is a very strange reaction for me.

Interested to hear what other dog owning/ non dog owning people think. Also the government are going to have to step in at some point right?

Standard shitbull owner's response is to blame the victim.

His crime?

He played with the dog.

So these are dogs that can't be around kids, cats, dogs or fun. What amazing pets.

Some owners have been killed after coughing and startling their pit bulls. A boy was killed after waking into a room to speak to his father. The audacity - thinking he could speak to his parent!

It's just insane.

I wouldn't be quite as blunt as that @Thesharkradar , but essentially, yes.

Although dominance theory is largely discredited, dogs are pack animals and their instinct is to be literally the "top dog".

The average pet, even knowing that it can beat you in a game of "tug", won't immediately turn and rip your throat out, but it does become aware of its power and it means that "play fights" etc can get out of hand because the dog is enjoying it, wants to win, and is reluctant to stop the game when you want to. A dog is like a perpetual toddler - it has no idea of the consequences of its actions and has to be gently taught what is acceptable.

In the same way that you wouldn't let a toddler have their own way all the time, or encourage potentially dangerous games, you don't let a young dog away with trying to be boss either. It needs to know that you are in charge and games stop and start when YOU say so. And it needs to think that it is physically less powerful than you are.

Owner should always be calling the shots.

thank you @Emotionalsupportviper 🙏
I'm sure you know what you are doing with your dogs, but I cant help feeling that the bull breeds require some kind of special license.

I too have a gentle, well socialised dog, but it does worry me-a Romanian 'Rescue' tore into a gentle pet dog I know at the local park,

The aggressor had a vast head on it and a very heavy body- I saw it enter the park, and immediately thought it looked threatening

Called my dog and put her on lead and we got away...Next thing, I heard a dog screaming, and this aggressive dog had bitten and torn like a shark a ( ) shape about 20 centimetres apart on the gentle pet.

The dog attacked silently, and this set me looking at ways of trying to protect my own dog.

In USA there is a hand held device that emits a crackle that seems very effective at deterring dogs and breaking up fights, but one cannot buy it in UK.

{It's classed as a firearm here}

The trouble is, with very aggressive, poorly socialised dogs they don't give much warning, and they pick on gentler dogs.

This looks a good tool for people in USA.

{It crackles}

The dog attacked silently, and this set me looking at ways of trying to protect my own dog
you wont be the only person looking for ways to protect yourself, I had this conversation with my partner recently, I cant see that there is anything legal in this country that would do any good at all, even being a good runner wont save you, unless you happen to be faster than other people also fleeing the attacking animal.
People who own bull breeds/muscle dogs will be aware that others are carrying weapons to use against their dog and will be looking for ways to protect their dog, it's going to be an arms race now.

Pitbulls are immensely popular in the US.

Of course most of the data on 'which breeds are most popular' come from puppy registrations from the AKC and UKC, (here the KC)...

And here, from insurance companies (not so much the US, pet insurance is far less common).

Those figures will not reflect the numbers of unregistered pitbull types in the US.

Everyone I speak to working with dogs in the US, tells me how popular pitbulls are and how numerous they are - but of course the registered Golden Retrievers, Chows, Bostons, French Bulldogs etc etc, will rate higher in a list complied by breed registration organisations.

But hey whadda I know I've only been working with dogs and dog people around the world for the last 20 years.

I don't think it will be an ''Arms race'' but I have found a large, long hazel 'Thumbstick' useful several times.
Mainly for deflecting without ever needing to touch a dog with it.

I try to avoid areas where pitbull types and XL bullies/Cane Corso are wherever possible, but there are just so many ill behaved dogs about, but I remain vigilant and can usually spot if an owner/walker has trouble controlling their dog/s and steer clear.

There was a young man with a Corso that he was trying hard to socialise, which was good to see, but his dog even as a puppy was vast and lumbering, and ''Too much dog'' for the average dog to play with

I'm a bull breed lover but would agree that there needs to be much stricter control of the breeding and ownership of all powerful breeds, including this type of bull breed. People often unwittingly buy as a pet an animal which has been "trained" (I use the term loosely) using brutal methods. These dogs are them brought into the house where there are children or vulnerable people, and after the first couple of "honeymoon" weeks, where the dog is settling and sizing up the household and its place in it, they start to assert themselves and this can have serious consequences.

Controls are needed for the sake of the dogs as well as us human beings - a lot of these animals suffer terribly, and are passed from hand to hand as each new home finds them too difficult to manage. They don't know if they are coming or going. Is very often what makes them so aggressive. They are born into lives of pain and abuse, and it makes them totally untrustworthy (not every dog, obviously, but far too many of them).

They are also a money-laundering opportunity for "big" criminals, as well as being weaponised by those at the bottom of the law-breaking food chain. This further encourages excessive breeding and more aggressive dogs being deliberately chosen to breed from (responsible breeders would never breed from an animal with a bad temperament).

I also think that there should perhaps be a ban on having this sort of dog in the home where there are small children. And they should always be leashed and muzzled outdoors

However I have no idea how any of these measures could be implemented or enforced. And I would hate to be a vet who had to put down hundreds of healthy animals - many of which wouldn't present any threat, but would be destroyed because of their "type" - if the law was changed to limit their numbers. What a dreadful job that would be.

Getting them all neutered would be a good start.

An amnesty on the breed, cut price neutering and chipping.

Many dogs would then be registered and there would be no accidental litters.

Breeders needing to register where the dogs go, and to be licensed.

We'd still have a ten year window of problem dogs, but far fewer and not steadily increasing.

Walkers need to show the papers for the dog when asked. If papers aren't available, dog is removed and neutered and rehomed somewhere suitable. Or PTS if that's not possible.

No one should own these dogs who doesn't take responsibility for licensing, insuring, chipping, neutering etc. Not doing it should define you as an unsuitable home.

Insurance will be high because of third party risks.

Use the power of the market.

That does look effective.

It's a pity the "crackle" part can't be isolated and sold as a sound deterrent, but it's obviously the electrical charge that does it.

I agree about rescues from Eastern Europe. I know a number of them and temperament varies a LOT.

AT first, everyone was enthusing about them (and I have to admit that I was impressed with the ones I met, too), but now they are coming over in huge numbers, and I think that many of them have been on the streets too long, and had to struggle to survive for so long that they regard any other dog as a threat to their resources.

When you think about it - every single day is a fight for food against other dogs. In that situation the dogs won't hold back, and the strongest, most powerful and most aggressive will be the ones which survive to be caught and re-homed. If this happens early in their lives they may adapt well to normal living, but if not, they'll remain troubled.

Agree with everything you have said - but responsible owners already neuter their animals, and chipping is a legal requirement (as is wearing a collar with owner's details on it). Unfortunately the scum who make money out of these dogs just ignore the present rules, so bringing in further, similar rules won't help.

Even if there are fines, many of the owners are on benefits, and courts allow them to pay off at £1/week or equally derisory sums. They are reluctant to take more because it can mean that children in the families will suffer.

It's a really difficult situation.

but responsible owners already neuter their animals, and chipping is a legal requirement (as is wearing a collar with owner's details on it). Unfortunately the scum who make money out of these dogs just ignore the present rules, so bringing in further, similar rules won't help.

Even if there are fines, many of the owners are on benefits, and courts allow them to pay off at £1/week or equally derisory sums. They are reluctant to take more because it can mean that children in the families will suffer.

It's a really difficult situation.

I hear you @Emotionalsupportviper and I understand that unenforceable laws are counterproductive.
I still think it could help if we made it more the norm to do the right thing.
I think one problem is that it is implicitly seen as everyone's right to have as many dogs as they wish and the rest of society has to accommodate any problems caused by the dogs. Rather the onus should be on the owner to make sure that the dog isn't problematic and to not have a dog if their lifestyle doesn't fit the needs of the dog.
The difficulty here is that many dog owners genuinely think it is equivalent to and should have the same rights as a human 😣
Yes dogs are important and significant human companion animals, but that doesn't mean that everyone automatically can have one if they want one, it means if you want one you have to be responsible and you must do the right thing by the dog and by the rest of society.

Completely agree re Romanian rescues- Some can be ok, especially if bought over as tiny puppies ( Surely illegally as too young for Rabies vaccine and testing to see if it has worked)
Our vet is not a fan of Romanian dogs being brought over en masse as too many just never settle well in a home environment- They are initially shut down, then start “ Flexing “
( Usually with any males in the household)
They are used to roaming free as a loose pack in Romania- not being curtailed by humans , and actively evading the people who try to round them up.

Re the American “ Crackle” device, I too thought the sound alone would be good as a deterrent-

Saw it in action on YT videos at American “ Dog parks “

Fuck em. Lock them in jail for many years, take their children into care and destroy their dogs. It's time we got tough. If we don't things will just keep getting worse.

Update on the most recent fatal dog attack:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-manchester-65657415
A woman has been arrested and 15 dogs have been seized after a man was killed in a dog attack.
Jonathan Hogg, 37, died in hospital after the attack in Leigh, Greater Manchester, on Thursday.
Police said the woman, aged 22, had been arrested on suspicion of money laundering and has since been bailed.
They added that "items" with a total value of £37,500, believed to be the result of criminal proceeds, had been seized.
The dog that attacked Mr Hogg was humanely destroyed after officers used "every tactic to subdue" the animal, police said.
They later seized six adult dogs and nine puppies - believed to be the same breed as that which attacked Mr Hogg - following their search of two houses.
"These dogs are now being cared for at a specialist facility," a police spokesman said.
A 24-year-old man previously arrested on suspicion of being in charge of a dangerously out-of-control dog causing injury resulting in death has been bailed.
Mr Hogg's family described him as a "well-loved, sensitive, and kind person".
Det Ch Insp John Davies said: "Dangerous dogs do not have a place in our communities, and we want to reassure the public that we are doing everything in our power to keep people safe."

I have to admit I tend to agree with you.

A lot of the children would be more likely to grow up honest if this happensed.

Oh my goodness.
Extremely aggressive owner- A 20 year ban is a long time- and this arsehole clearly was using his dogs to intimidate people.

There is a video on you tube be where Pit Bull types are m U.K. were being investigated-
Identified Pit Bulls were euthanised, even if they were apparently gentle natured.

Some dogs were seized from already banned people where the dogs were kept in dog-shit filled rooms in tower blocks or locked in sheds.

One Bull breeddog was returned to it’s feckless owner who was letting it stray.

HOW can responsible dog ownership be reliably enforced?