Prosecuted for driving while tired?

[echt]

https://www.theguardian.com/science/2023/may/08/blood-test-for-sleepy-drivers-could-pave-way-for-prosecutions
and
https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2023/may/08/experts-divided-on-ethics-of-testing-and-punishing-tired-drivers

This is at the research stage, but tests are being investigated that will pick up the blood markers showing that a person is too tired to drive.
What do you think of it? My immediate thought was of current drink/drug testing in Australia where drivers are pulled over routinely for testing at random.

The police can’t keep up with phone drivers & texting drivers, how will they have the resources to follow this through?

it could be taken at a crash to determine fault, but a slap on the wrist will be most likely as driving offences are very light in the U.K.

This. I was the victim of an armed robbery (two men in balaclavas with guns) and the police couldnt be bothered to even get back to me about what happened afterwards and offered me zero support whatsoever. Equally, my vulnerable nan was burgled and it took them two days to investigate. So, they can crack on with this but I highly doubt they'll have the time or resources to put it into practice.

That will be great for all the shift and other overnight workers like doctors and medical staff who have no choice but to drive when they are tired.

They'll find the time and resources to pursue this because the majority of penalties will be fines 🤔

Unless someone dies of course.

Tired drivers kill 10 times more people than drunk drivers

Workplaces would have to start accepting ’I’m too tired to drive’ as a reason to not come into work I guess.

Er they do have a choice.

Agree with others that their time would be better spent elsewhere.

it could be useful if there’s a big crash and a fatality and they’re trying to build up a picture of what’s happened. But I really don’t think it would make sense for spot checks.

For example we roughly know how much is okay to drink if you’re going to drive depending on which country you’re in. Eg. Zero in Scotland, maybe half a pint with a meal in England.

But I don’t think people really have have a a way of qualifying tiredness for themselves.

We have a young DC and another on the way. The tiredness we’ll experience when the next baby is born will be a lot. Will we not be allowed to drive for even short journeys? Because I’ll be far too tired or even unable to walk very far for some time after birth.

I’m not sure about that, I read it was roughly the same risk. Do you have a source?

Yes they can all quit and add to the recruitment crisis in hospitals.

This law would disproportionately affect women. Women take on more overnight caring responsibilities and need more sleep in the first place.

While this is a good thing in principle — I’m not arguing for a second that anyone should drive while drowsy/tired — I think the ethics of it could get quite gnarly.

From the second article:

“If you refuse to work because of a shift schedule, or you are not allowed to work and not paid because you are too sleepy, that is directly affecting your income,” said Dr Gilles Vanderwalle, a neuroscientist at the University of Liège in Belgium, who studies sleep and wakefulness. “While I agree that we have the techniques to detect drowsiness, we even have the techniques to predict vulnerability to lack of sleep and could maybe start advising people, based on their genetics or their profile, not to take a job – having the choice of a job is still largely the luxury of people with a good socioeconomic status.”

But people shouldn't be forced to take the risk of driving while tired and this may impose a welcome duty of care on their employer. The Royal College of Anaesthetists has had a big campaign on the dangers of driving tired. Some of their members have been killed or seriously injured driving home from night shift.

Things an employer could do would be provide rest facilities on site for workers coming off shift, provide transport home or re-engineer shift patterns to be less exhausting.

Unless you happen to have crashed your car onto a train line and caused a train to derail. Gary Hart got five years in prison for falling asleep. http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/1703935.stm#:~:text=The%20effects%20of%20fatigue%20on,main%20East%20Coast%20railway%20line.

as a midwife I’d have to never work another night shift again if I couldn’t drive when excessively tired.

Interesting. Do people who have high markers of tirdness in their blood actually feel tired? Because if you felt fine & then got pulled over & prosecuted it would feel very unfair.
I'm thinking of people who are frequently used to too little sleep, like new mums, shift workers etc. I'm sure after a while you don't notice the tiredness?

It's too subjective.

No one 'has' to drink drive, but plenty of proper have little choice but to drive when tired. Bills don't pay themselves, shifts sometimes end at unsociable hours, and poor sleep due to children isn't confined to the maternity leave period 🙄

Many people (including me) are permanently tired. I'm lucky in that I wfh and have a supportive partner, so I avoid driving when I'm at my most tired (we have 2 non sleeping children), but I'm in the lucky minority in being able to choose.

It's subjective how tired someone is, and his it effects their concentration. What next, no driving with a (minor) headache? A cold? Period pains? A crying baby? Arguing children? When already running late and stressed?

It's good to see tiredness being properly recognised as a cause of accidents. As PP have said, prevention must involve employers.

The irony is that the police force are always sending out police officers on little or no sleep!

*Er they do have a choice.
*
Not necessarily. Ex carer here. There's been times when I've rang to try and have a couple of calls covered due to sheer tiredness and being told no. All they were bothered about was making as much money as possible and looking after the staff who's faces fit the company. The ones who's faces did fit who needed some calls covering would be taken off them and loaded onto the ones who didn't.

It's a popular misconception that the police benefit financially from fines from driving offences.

Driver monitoring systems which test for fatigue and distraction will be a legal requirement on all new cars from 2026 and new models from next year.

Our roads are pretty safe. I would rather resources went into solving crimes like Rape, Murder, Burglary, Assault etc.

I can see why it’s being considered but it could really affect the lives of people with chronic insomnia, new parents etc. And would be unpopular if the police were to start random testing. As ppl have said upthread, the police are already poor at responding to crimes such as burglaries.

I agree in theory that employers should take more responsibility for this but in practice can you see the nhs in its current state doing these things? All that will happen is that more medical staff get prosecuted and more leave the profession.

The changes need to be made to workplaces but this should come ahead of any changes to the law and will require significant investment which will not be forthcoming at least under the current government.

That's no excuse; tired drivers cause lots of deaths, and I don't care what they do for a living. Would you be happy to have a loved one killed in a crash as long as the driver was a nurse or doctor? And they do have a choice; public transport, taxi, or a change of job/location.

You don't need to capitalise nouns like that 😊.