Prosecuted for driving while tired?

[echt]

https://www.theguardian.com/science/2023/may/08/blood-test-for-sleepy-drivers-could-pave-way-for-prosecutions
and
https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2023/may/08/experts-divided-on-ethics-of-testing-and-punishing-tired-drivers

This is at the research stage, but tests are being investigated that will pick up the blood markers showing that a person is too tired to drive.
What do you think of it? My immediate thought was of current drink/drug testing in Australia where drivers are pulled over routinely for testing at random.

I doubt the police will ever have the resources to police it, but I’m sure there’s no doubt that tiredness does cause accidents. I don’t mind admitting that I once started nodding off while driving at night with both little dds in the back. Disaster was only averted by someone hooting madly and waking me as I was wandering out of my motorway lane.

I think this kind of thing would be fine. IF every driver had the possibility to measure their own level of tiredness before getting into a car

IF a driver is unable to measure their tiredness then I don’t think legally you could prosecute them. Unless you are falling asleep at the wheel most people have points during the day where they feel tired- eg at the end of a long work day etc. It’s not like alcohol or drugs where you have intentionally consumed something and the answer is a clear yes or no. Tiredness is a much more nebulous concept and so I think the only way they could do this is to make it mandatory to have a tiredness monitor of some kind in your car. If you drive knowing you are “too tired” then that shows indication/intention to break the law. Otherwise it’s far too woolly to assess- as everyone’s tiredness level will vary

Trouble is you as a driver would know if you are using a phone, you know if you have had a drink.

How the heck do you judge you have lack of sleep biomarkers.

Would you be happy if a loved one died because when they were ill and went to hospital there was no one to look after them because they had to leave the profession?

You need to see the privilege you have if you seriously think your solutions are options.

Yes absolutely this. Tiredness does kill but the country will come to a standstill if this happened. DC cannot be brought to school if younger siblings had a bad night, many on call services cannot happen, nurses, doctors, police will need a service to bring them home. Patrol police will no longer be able to patrol.

I do wish they could do this for anger though. I truly believe that angry driving is the second biggest killer to phones.

CFS isn’t on the list for compulsory notification to DVLA. It only needs to be notified if it affects your ability to drive.

As well as stop expecting people to drive long distances and then do a day's work before driving home.

Yup. I know many people who would fail an “angry bio marker test”!

So when your job fires you for not coming in again because you were too tired to drive are these people then allowed to claim universal credit?
The law would be on their side in terms of driving the rules around uc means they wouldn't be entitled to any money.

I'm not saying that you should be driving tired but the whole system will need a shake up to cover this so people can keep their jobs despite having a few shit nights sleep.

I'd rather compulsory sight tests every three years. Refresher tests every five years, further checks on the inexperienced and the elderly.

To be fair ross people are getting too dependant on cars and unable to walk even a short distance. Our environment and NHS would be better off if people used their legs more.

Doubtful - drink, drugs, phone use and inappropriate speed are the statistical highest causes. Angry people are unpleasant but not always dangerous.

One positive outcome is that more people might feel that they finally have permission to sleep train. One of my least favorite things on parenting boards is the posters making parents feel guilty for doing what they need to do in order to get enough sleep to function. When I hear about parents spending years on end waking every hour, I find it quite scary to think about them being behind the wheel of a car.

Well then I’m assuming the local authority is going to pick up my children and take them to school if I’m classed as too tired to drive (we live rurally)

Id much prefer they sort out the amount of idiots texting while driving before they look into this.

The police are under resourced they don’t even cover the basics now how would they ever have the resources to do this I do not know

Wow. I just took the dog for a walk after starting this thread.

I think it's going to be (if it gets off the ground), very problematic for all the reasons already mentioned. A lot depends on how it might be implemented - after an RTA perhaps. I've always thought a sight test, like the breathalyser, should be mandatory after an RTA.

And yes, wish desperately that the UK was less dependent on cars.

a couple of tabs of Modafinil in my glove box just in case for an emergency.

Meanwhile, the rest of us can't get hold of this prescription medication to have it "just in case". This is not a viable option for most people.

I would say killing someone on the road cancels out any good work done in the hospital. And I used to work nights as a midwife, so thank you for your silly assumptions.

Makes the 15-minute cities seem like a great idea! The UK is hopelessly choked by traffic.

Tell me how this won't be indirectly sexist.

For starters how much testing on women has there been? Generally speaking tests are done on the default human body in science: the male one
(Read 'invisible women' for how this consistently works against women for having different physiology)

Then since women are more likely to work in caring professions involving shift work at lower ranks you get issues.

Not to mention child caring issues.

Without considering whether women are biologically designed to cope with sleep deprivation differently to men.

As much as it's a noble idea given the number of deaths from falling asleep at the wheel, I do wonder about the ramifications.

I'd also be curious to see the split between men and women falling asleep at the wheel and whether it's 50:50.

Yawn.

Sleep training doesn't work for every child. Sleep problems are associated with ADHD. Which you can't even start to enter the diagnosis route until age 6 in most cases.

DS is 8 and we are still having massive issues here.

What? Just live at the hospital? I used to start work at 2 or 3 in the morning and was always tired but I had to go work and that was the only job I could get

Sorry 15 min cities give me the rage (it's OK I'm not driving today) they will only harm female equality.
You have 2 career adults with kids.
It will likely be the man's job that trumps where to live.
What of the woman's career? Give it up and get a nice wee supermarket job? As she can now no longer travel over 15min.

There is no such thing as "biologically designed" I'm afraid, it's a total fallacy.