Prosecuted for driving while tired?

[echt]

https://www.theguardian.com/science/2023/may/08/blood-test-for-sleepy-drivers-could-pave-way-for-prosecutions
and
https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2023/may/08/experts-divided-on-ethics-of-testing-and-punishing-tired-drivers

This is at the research stage, but tests are being investigated that will pick up the blood markers showing that a person is too tired to drive.
What do you think of it? My immediate thought was of current drink/drug testing in Australia where drivers are pulled over routinely for testing at random.

If you are too tired to concentrate properly when driving, then you are driving without due care and attention so it is already an offence anyway.

No they wouldn't. The commute is the employees responsibility. Would 'I'm too hung over to drive' be ok to an employer? Of course not.

However, you'd hope an understanding employer would be caring at tricky times which might lead to too little sleep e.g. bereavement, child illness etc.

As I said, having disabled child who doesn’t sleep means I would just have to quit my job. How much sleep we get isn’t within the control of a lot of us. I can’t just say ‘right I’ve got work tomorrow so need 8 hours sleep tonight’. I haven’t been able to do that for 9 years.

‘I’m too hungover to drive’ is entirely different, as that’s the choice of the employee. No one needs to drink. How much sleep I get isn’t a choice.

It is also possible to be too hungover to drive without failing a blood test for alcohol.

You can't be "suitably rested" if your child doesn't sleep.

Mine didn't sleep until 8 and has only just left my bed at 14. I was able to keep my part time job as I walk to it but I had to give up studying OU as I've been so tired all these years.

It's a choice for a lot of people though isn't it. Lots of people could get more sleep but don't. That's a choice. Of course, that's not true for everybody's circumstances.

Well of course. But I was talking about my circumstances.
Most people don’t actively enjoy being tired, so don’t choose to be chronically sleep deprived.

leading causes of deaths are often multi factorial
1 failure to look properly 33% lack of attention tiredness would be included here
2 lack of judgment of others' speed / postion risk taking to overtake etc 19%
3 carelessness including speeding being on the phone etc18%
4 losing control ice rain snow tiredness falling asleep, corners too fast 17%
5 drink driving 13%
tiredness is often mixed in with other things so is in categories 1, 3 and 4

however over the past 30 years road fatalies are down by more than 60% despite the increases in traffic population etc, child deaths are down 88% from 450 a year 30 years ago to 54 now, the biggest factors are seatbelts and drink driving decreasing dramatically,
seatbelts were intorduced in 1991 for all seats deaths were 4500 a year, since 2015 the average is 1600 per year

It's not always just about a commute though. I'm a home care worker, so my job involves driving around all day for long shifts, and no option of public transport.

The commute is the employees responsibility

But it is also the employer responsibility- to pay staff enough to live locally, to arrange shift patterns and overtime in a way that gives the employees a fighting chance of not being too exhausted to drive safely

I've fallen asleep at the wheel momentarily on a night shift whilst driving on blue lights before I became a parent. Now I'm the mother to a child who hasn't slept solidly for more than 3 hours in their entire 13 months of life and I have crippling insomnia... my employer is fully expecting me back to do 12 hour shifts in a few weeks despite me being completely honest about how tired I am. The blaséness towards the effects of being tired from employers is astonishing.

@DanceMonster

But if it’s entirely based on blood markers and not impairment, how will I know? Honestly I suspect my blood markers would be high. I haven’t had a full nights sleep in 9 years. I’m so used to it though that I never feel horrifically tired, it’s just my normal. So unless I take a blood test before I get in the car, how would I know? The only way to be safe would be to stop driving completely, and therefore giving up my job

They are discussing testing people who've driven dangerously or caused crashes.

Not random testing.

How will you know? Surely you know whether you are safe to drive or not? If not you shouldn't be driving.

Well no, that was entirely my point. I’m chronically sleep deprived, to the point that my body has adjusted to it and it has become normal. I feel fine to drive, but as I rarely sleep more than 4 hours a need I imagine I have high markers in my blood for tiredness. I manage to work full time and bring up 3 children, including one who is disabled, on 4 hours sleep. But I am sleep deprived.

And the evidence is that you are much more likely to have an accident whilst driving even if you think you are fine because you are use to it

So is the answer then to disqualify anyone who is chronically sleep deprived from driving? 100% of my driving is to a) earn a living and b) take my disabled child to his medical appointments.

I think there needs to be a serious overhaul of society because no one should be under pressure to do dangerous things because they don't have enough support

But that won't happen in my life

But if it was your child killed because mummy was too tired you'd feel pretty shit about yourself - at least this way you now know the risks you are taking with other peoples lives

But I’m not tired. I don’t feel tired. I have a high pressure job, I bring up 3 children, look after a house. I just don’t get more than 4 hours sleep a night (bar the very odd occasion when I may get 6!). I feel as fine to drive as I ever did before being sleep deprived. However I have no ideas what my blood markers say about my tiredness levels. My point was just how do we know if we’re ok to drive? If there’s a test we can take beforehand, great.

I think there needs to be a serious overhaul of society because no one should be under pressure to do dangerous things because they don't have enough support

And yet as a society we are quite happy to support people doing dangerous things for fun.

Funny old world, innit ?

Fun is your choice
Risking others lives shouldn't be

I once heard the fact that you are more likely to have an accident within two miles of home than anywhere else. And it's not because that's where you drive most often. It's because you are most familiar with the roads so switch off or think 'im nearly home' and stop concerntrating.

It's always made me make a point of focusing on those last couple of miles.

No it's not. The employer can pay anything as long as it's on or over minimum wage. As for overtime, it's optional so that's not their responsibility either.

There comes a time when people have to take responsibility for themselves and not blame others.

But it is also the employer responsibility- to pay staff enough to live locally

No. Employees should be paid paid according to their skill set, experience, job responsibilities and qualifications- where they choose to live has nothing whatsoever to do with their employer.

I live seven miles from the hospital, still need to drive there. No public transport early or late enough.