Why aren't people supportive of a child wanting to join the military?

[321gogogo]

Just off the back of another post.

My youngest (14) is very clear about his career path. He wants to join the Navy and train to become an engineer.

We are fully supportive of this, as we are of his brother who is looking at law or IT.

I was surprised to read of so many people saying they wouldn't support their child if they wished to join the military and I was wondering why the negativity.

Because by 25 my good friend was a Lance corporal paratrooper, he was commended and an excellent soldier, by 26 he was dead.

In addition to this my best friend's husband was in the army for some time , promoted well, became an engineer, has debilitating PTSD from seeing his friend and colleague Bowen up and killed in northern Ireland.

My colleague is ex Navy (now police), loved his time in the military, got medically discharged after an injury during active service. He says when he came out he couldn't cope, mental health spiralled, he couldn't fit into his own family life. Because he had a wife, DC, a home and a job he received no follow up care/support. He says now his behaviour at that time was not that of a good father and husband, he wasn't able to recognise and manage his emotions having spent so long switching them off, it led to the downfall of his marriage and him not having contact with two of his children for several years, for which he takes full accountability.

I just don't want any of the above for my son. My husband and I both work in criminal justice/criminal justice mental health, so we understand public service, our jobs are emotionally and psychologically demanding, I've been held hostage DH has been invited in the course of his job and threatened numerous times. To be honest if be asking DS to really think twice about following in our footsteps. I certainly wouldn't be encouraging him into a military career.

Can you please address what other posters have said though - the mental health issues, increase in violent behaviours domestically, sexual harassment, PTSD mentioned are all well documented and studied, its not just 'my mates dad was ex RAF and he was a wrong'un' and I feel like this response and others claiming people are prejudiced and whinging completely ignores the very well known reality and experience of the military.

I think an engineer in the navy is great. But lets be honest, most people when you say "join the military", think active combat. Fighting, guns, getting limbs blown off.

Also men in the military from what I've seen and heard tend to become abusive and violent to their partners, often have a narcissistic tendency. Hell, they're trained to kill, for goodness sake. Many women I've read that have been abused both on here and other places, had a husband that was either in the military, or in the police force. It trains men up to be violent and to kill. That's the entire purpose. And I would never marry one or wish for my child to enter - the combat side, anyway. You also forget they can be killed in action or have serious PTSD. Some suicide.

Given all of that, why would you actually want a loved one in that combat sphere?

Is there any reason he can't get an engineer position in the railways or Boeing, or something else less harmful than the military? Aerospace engineer? For a telecommunications company? Hydro company? Whitegoods anything. I'd encourage him to look at engineering jobs away from the military.

My friend knew he may have to kill, but he didn't expect to be facing teenage children with guns, only a few years younger than himself but children nonetheless.

I'm ethically and politically against the majority of what the military do and how they are used, so primarily that.

I'd also say in general the military rely on working class kids with few opportunities for the bulk of their recruitment. Which given the actions of the military tend to not do much for this group it also doesn't sit right with my class politics.

Also if my moral and political feelings weren't enough, it feels like a shit quality of life.

I understand why people wouldn't want their child to, I would hate the idea of my children joining but would be supportive. An old school friend had a very similar career path set out to your son - he did a levels, went to Cambridge, joined the RAF.

Also having worked with offenders and people with mental health issues it has a massive tole on the people who join and their families, and really probably their wider community.

There are some very unfair, biased and judgemental posts here. My son joined in 2005 as a boy. He was wise and chose one of the trades. His first posting was in Germany and he loved it. He has done 3 combat tours of duty , Iraq/Afghan and travelled on exercise all over the world. He met his now wife in the army. He came out 3 years ago with a large bonus and many new skills, bought a house started a family. He doesn't have PTSD, he doesn't get pissed or take drugs or knock his wife around.
The way the military are portrayed in film and TV doesn't help, they always have to be a Grant Mitchell Eastenders knucklehead bully type, which in most cases is not true.

That's a hard one isn't it? 🙄🙄

Don't want my children to go into combat and risk their lives

Don't want my children to be tied into a job that they could potentially hate but find it incredibly difficult to get out of

My partner is not violent. He doesn't - to my knowledge - have PTSD. He is an officer.

It's still not a life I'd want for my daughter in law and grandchildren.

My friends ex was in the army, he was never the same when he was home.

TL;DR

Im so proud that my son got to kill people for his government

High suicide rates both during training and upon leaving. Loads of reports of bullying in the forces. Those photos of them shooting at pictures of Jeremy Corbyn. Right wing approach. Lack of support for those that have left the forces and associated mental health issues. Not sure what percentage of all homeless people are ex forces, but it's high. Link between domestic violence and the forces. Difficulty in having a family life, being away for long periods of time. The fact you are more likely to be killed / kill. That said my cousin did very well in the army, it totally sorted him out. But then again he was one of these kids who used to think it was fun to throw bricks off motorway bridges.

I do appreciate that for some it is an excellent career choice with some great training available . And there are so many different roles available. But I think it only suits certain people and is certainly not a path I would encourage for my kids.

Also men in the military from what I've seen and heard tend to become abusive and violent to their partners, often have a narcissistic tendency. Hell, they're trained to kill, for goodness sake.

Really? Not really the case in my and my peers experience and in any event I thought that sort of stereotyping of certain groups of individuals was frowned upon these days..

Is there any reason he can't get an engineer position in the railways or Boeing, or something else less harmful than the military? Aerospace engineer? For a telecommunications company? Hydro company? Whitegoods anything. I'd encourage him to look at engineering jobs away from the military.

Not sure how easy it is to get into those sorts of companies straight out of uni but they do tend hoover 😉up engineers with a military background..

BTW Boeing and many other aerospace companies produce lots of harmful stuff, so perhaps not the place for those with moral objections to certain lines of work.

Oh get a grip @JustAnotherPoster00

My husband did 35yrs service and didn’t kill a soul.

My son has done 9.5yrs and hasn’t killed a soul either.

You can whinge on all you like that “people are trained to kill for their Govt” but the fact is we need an armed force. My son was there doing the Covid testing, he’s been there when people’s houses have been flooded, he’s driven community nurses round in 4x4s when it’s been to snowy for them to drive their own cars. He was on a deployment when the country he was in flooded, the first thing they did was wade, thigh, deep in water to help the people who were cut off.

There’s so much more to the military than killing people and going to war. It just shows ignorance when people post rubbish like that.

I'd be more relaxed about navy or air force as less chance of them ending up as a foot soldier in a war zone.

I have every respect for those who serve but don't think I'd cope with the stress and worry.

A lad I was at school with joined the army and was promptly sent to Iraq. He came back with severe mental health/ptsd issues and struggled to get back into civilian life and committed suicide a couple of years later. So no, I wouldn’t encourage this of my children.

There are many professions I wouldn’t actively encourage my child to go into OP and this is one of them. It’s based on fear of the unknown. Aside from the worry that he could choose to retrain and go into active combat, he would very likely make good friends with people who did. From a mental health point of view I’d be utterly terrified for him. Yes I understand he might be absolutely fine and might not ever come into contact with these things, but I think the odds would be raised.
As said above though, there are many things in life I’d fear him doing, including a minimum wage job in the local corner shop. My niece was robbed three times in the last couple of years and she’s only a young girl who has been scarred by the experiences. So the sad truth is that no matter what career my kids choose I will have concerns for their safety. I’m a mum, worrying is part and parcel.

What are the careers that MNers actively approve of for their DC, I wonder.

Seriously. Teaching? But we all know how miserable teachers are right now, so that can't be on the approved list. Nursing? That is one of the top 10 most dangerous jobs according to link I posted. Doctors & academics routinely post on MN to say they would never encourage their own kids to join their professions.

HR, Dentristry & dental hygiene, maybe? As long as not NHS, because most the NHS is on strike, all NHS workers seem pretty miserable, too. Lawyers & city bankers have no ethics, right? Construction jobs are the most dangerous jobs of all (on link) so the trades are all out. Scientists: work with dangerous chemicals & germs. Cleaners? Care home stuff? Not well paid but maybe safe enough... Dog walkers: you gotta be joking. Delivery drivers, perhaps? Writers. Sit in own home & write about the big bad world that one dares not enter.

Shop keepers & hair dressing might be approved of, maybe?

@lljkk This was my point also. I certainly wouldn’t want shop keeper based on my niece’s experiences. The world is terrifying and at some point we need to let our young ones go. It gives me the shivers.

As another poster upthread said, it is often down to political leaning why many do not support the forces.

I know many ex-military people. PTSD is a fact of military service for some personnel. The government is waking up to this far too late. But then PTSD is a fact for civilians too not only in some professional lives, but domestic lives also. The 'airy fairy' influencers as someone put it is a car crash waiting to happen on the mental health front. Then we have all the weed smokers. Etc. PTSD and mental health issues are not the exclusive realm of the military.

Those that do best from the forces have previously held a commission. I know three who have very well paid jobs now working for companies in senior roles. One now settled in Norway with a substantial pension, another in Switzerland and the other in Oxfordshire as a COO in a booming tech company. All earning above £300k with additional benefits. Those I know who did not take commissions have all done well to varying degrees. I do not know one regular from my regiment who did not go on to have a fulfilling life - from farmers to builders to teachers. One 'knucklehead' made millions from recycling - an idea he picked up from his time in logistics.

I would never suggest married life and the forces mix well. It should be avoided. I did not marry until 35 and after I left. That was early enough. But the forces are the making of many people and the defenders of all of us - whether you like it or not.

I’ve had more sleepless nights, in the last couple of years, over DS2 than I have over DS1 because of what he’s seen and dealt with during covid and I’m worried about the impact that it could possibly have on him in years to come. The amount of telephone calls i had from him because he’d just had to hold the hand of someone while they died, with no family, again, or he didn’t have the correct PPE, or that he didn’t agree with what the Govt were telling them to do but they had no choice was just awful. Even now, I’m concerned about how the state of the NHS and his working conditions are affecting his mental health.

Wonderful opportunity. Solid carer and training to degree level without debt. Travel the world. Life long friends and random drug testing. What's not to like. In my experience ex DP did 10 years was well supported through and on leaving had a year of support and training opportunities for civilian life. He has walked into any job he has applied for as ex military will work hard reliable etc. and it pays well. I'd support anyone to join up. Navy particularly as less likely to get shot at. Good luck to your son.

I'm assuming you mean the British Navy. We're 20+ years post Afghanistan and Iraq, there can be no innocence about the things that the British armed forces can be sent to do, and the immorality of it.

He can be an engineer without joining, he can be a seaman without joining.

If my DC wanted to be paramedics I'd worry about PTSD but I'd be proud. If they wanted to join the armed forces of any non-neutral country I'd be ashamed.

I worked in an organisation that helped, well try to help, military who were medically discharged back into civvy jobs.
I acknowledge that these people came from the extreme end of combat, though some had 'ordinary' car accidents or injuries elsewhere.

they were mentally very unwell and it was very hard to work with them.
ptsd is an awful condition to live with. and mixed with (previously) physically very fit young men. add a big dose of mysogynistic culture and employment prospects are even more limited.