Do children belong in a "fancy" restaurant?

[Puttingchildrenfirst]

Hello All!

I'm looking for people's thoughts on children in high end restaurants.

For context we were invited to a very high end restaurant this weekend (think £150 a head set tasting menu fine dining place) to celebrate a family members birthday (less than a weeks notice).

We have a toddler and a new baby so I declined as soon as I looked the restaurant up as I knew we couldn't organise childcare and husband was on call that night (needs to be near home).

Family wanted me to still come and bring the children but I declined as I really couldn't imagine wrangling a hungry toddler (no children's menu) and trying to latch a baby on while the couple on the next table celebrate their wedding anniversary!

I'll be honest I was also thinking of a popular thread on AIBU here recently where people were commenting on the behaviour of young children in a cafe at an aquarium. The consensus there was children shouldn't be in any sort of fancier restaurants!

However family think we're being overly precious to not bring the kids (and therefore not attend) and another thread yesterday had posters recommending a mum took her 8 month old to a 3 Michelin star restaurant.

If you were sat next to 2 kids under 3 at a very expensive restaurant... what would you be thinking?

Me too.

Depends on the children! You know yours best of all and how they would cope and behave. I wouldn't personally worry about the sort of people who just hate seeing children in restaurants, I wouldn't give them a second thought. But I would concern myself whether it would be enjoyable and relaxing for you and the children.

If you were sat next to 2 kids under 3 at a very expensive restaurant... what would you be thinking?

I would be thinking: nope nope nope. my DH is a high-end chef. Works in the sort of place with 150 quid taster menus (extra with wine) and we often use our free time to eat at similar. When our DC were small we either didn't go out or we paid through the nose for good quality childcare.
I don't want children there because they have a high potential to disturb the ambiene. In the same vein i rarely want to see groups of businessmen there either because they often get noisy and obnoxious (experience, sadly) I don't want noisy disruptive people there. I want to enjoy my expensive meal.

Yes I think you've hit the nail on the head there, we were happy to just bow out with a thanks but that's not going to work for us but hope you all have a great time.

However it's been brought up again and again and become a bit of a "thing". I think when they've actually been they'll realise how much we would have detracted from the experience.

Especially

As I think Id be tempted to hand them both over at the start with a "ah why don't you sit next to X and Y, oooh would you like to hold the baby?" And then try and pretend they weren't mine while I enjoyed my amuse bouche!

Oooh goodness that's some wonky mumsnet formatting there!

Even if they were well behaved?

Definitely not for the age of your children -when you are out at a restaurant like that you want to relax , enjoy and really appreciate the food. You will up stressed the whole time about the children not sitting or being noisy. And then worrying about baby crying. Also most of those places don't have kids menus and tasting menu food has some really 'adult' flavours that most kids would not like. Total waste of money imho.

Right decision, OP. High end, fancy restaurants are not generally places for really small children and the restaurant has pretty much confirmed that. I bet if you did go and the kids yelled and screamed, you’d get no help from the family either.

No, not with a toddler and very young baby. I think one of your dc may need to develop a temperature or some nasty diarrhea.

Over fives who can be relied on to behave at the table absolutely fine.

The Ivy isn't, and in its original form, never was fine dining. The old Ivy was wonderful - the chain that has sprung up is OK and somewhere between Carluccios and fine dining imo.

My three children have been patented in exactly the same way.

They have just have wildly different personalities.

My eldest and middle child you could take anywhere. They have always behaved impeccably.

My youngest is 2 years old would manage to make a spectacle of herself in a McDonalds during a riot.

You can’t tell on first sight which children are well behaved and which are owed by tossers who think little Arlo’s need to express himself is paramount.

Besides which, even “well behaved” behaviour and noise and babble isn’t necessarily what everyone wants to hear in the background when they’ve chosen to eat in a Michelin starred restaurant for a special occasion rather than at Pizza Express.

I wouldn’t have taken my two very well behaved ones anyway though to a high end restaurant.

The whole world would say yes! Child hating UK ONLY would say no!

some places I've been in the last 12 months (all fine dining, taster menu type places)
Berlin: no under 12s allowed. Group of noisy men told to leave. Firmly.
Paris: no children allowed (and witnessed at least 2 teens get turned away with their parents)
Brussels: no children allowed, noisy family asked to tone the noise down, then asked to leave.
London: 1 noisy group of men asked to leave, they left after making a scene and 2 rather large scary looking diners (different tables) approached and asked waiter if they needed help. 1 couple asked to leave because they brought in a toy dog in a bag. No children.
Utrecht: children allowed until 7pm. Different day-time menu, rigorously enforced necessitating one family to have the rest of their meal packed up to take home.

Depends on whether it's a lunch or an evening meal. We found that certain high end restaurants were happy to have toddlers at lunch times but not evenings. No children's menu as such but we split the adult between the two of them. They were spoiled rotten by the staff!

Most of the high end restaurants I book at say no to children unless they are used to eating at these places and know "the étiquette" ...

My daughter is 10 and I have never taken her despite her eating out regularly. When she was younger I didn't take her because it's unfair to expect her to behave in the way she would need to for that length of time. And now because it would be £150 wasted as she wouldn't eat most of it!

I'd be asking to be moved as far away as possible. If not possible I would leave, and make it clear to management why I was doing so.

Even if they were well behaved?

you don't know how they are going to behave though. i don't want to get 3 courses in with an expensive 10 course menu to discover a noisy toddler running round. Having said that: I would give the restaurant one chance to ask them to leave, before leaving myself. And i would be paying a maximum of a small percentage of the meal i'd had so far.

It isn't just about food, it is about ambience and so on. Being able to enjoy surroundings.

And yes, in Greece or Germany or Italy you will be told exactly what you are doing wrong every 30 seconds if you take a child anywhere (although with very small DCs in Italy i will be forever grateful to the owners of a trattoria who took our children to a corner and fed and entertained them so we could enjoy a meal in peace. The nonna was amazing, and had my 2 eating things they wouldn't countenance for me.

Ha, this is exactly my sister's experience of raising my nephew in a Portuguese village. Everybody felt they had the right to criticise anything they personally disapproved of (made worse by the fact that my nephew is TALL compared to most Portuguese kids so everyone assumed he was significantly older than he was, even though he's always been very well behaved). All the "ay ay ay!", tutting and direct telling off (of both nephew and sister!) is something I've never seen in the UK and I can bet most people here wouldn't be happy with it!

Mine is 8 and has been reliably fine in restaurants from a fairly young age. She loves eating out, the fancier the better (she has what we call 'notions' in Ireland), so I'd take her at this age no question.

When she was under 3 though... no way, it wouldn't have been fun for any of us and I'd have been constantly paranoid in case she screamed/made a mess/annoyed people.

Agree entirely. I have lived and worked in several European countries and this cliched idea that somehow Euro kids are impeccably well behaved and welcomed in all restaurants is utter horseshit. People eating in high end dining places had the same attitudes in the UK insofar as children being treated with caution. Perhaps one observation in Med countries is that there is more scope for eating outside in the warmer weather where kids are often allowed to go and play away from the table.

There was a thread on here the other month about noisy kids in the Fat Duck. The predictable bun fight started with some awesome levels of competitive parenting with one person smugly declaring that her toddler had a sophisticated pallet and would look forward to such dining experiences. She would discuss the flavour combinations for each course of the tasting menu with her clearly highly articulate gifted child.

"What do you think of the Nitro poached green tea and lime mousse Archie?"

"Bum bum poo poo"

"Yes I agree, it is the most intriguing beginnings to a meal, I like the way the light above the table turns green and the mousse is lowered into liquid nitrogen. I think the resulting palate cleanser is crisp and intense; overlaid with a note of lime, sprayed into the air with a theatrical flourish"

"Wee wee poo poo"

"Yes Archie, I could not have articulated better, the jelly of quail langoustine cream and parfait of chicken liver really is homage to Alain Chapel’s Pigeon Jelly, I think it has a subtle star anise and onion essence and the finger of toast fried in beef fat comes with truffle, oak and moss flavours is really stirring up memories of damp woodland walks. Well done Archie"

Fucking twat.

Toddlers and tasting menus don't really go together at all.

We were taken to restaurants from a young age and expected to behave well which we did. But a high end restaurant at £150 a head is just ludicrous to expect a toddler to sit there as each course is presented, savoured and enjoyed.

I really don't understand why your family selected such an unsuitable restaurant with the expectation that you would come with the children. Surely there's a plethora of restaurants to choose instead that are way up from a Pizza Express but not at the level of fine dine tasting menu? It strikes me as they are the ones being silly here not you! You've already rung the restaurant to clarify and received a very luke warm response bordering on the "no don't bring your young children here it's not suitable".

I'm all for children learning social skills of being in a restaurant when young, but this is frankly a step too far at that age.

Any child that van behave themselves is welcome I would thought
Toddler and baby you are exactly right to decline!

What time is the booking?

I noticed that whenever we go on trips to Italy or Spain or Greece, kids are everywhere - in restaurants, seen kids even in bars in later evenings. I quite like that that's the culture. There is something quite wholesome about it :)

@Brefugee In more rural areas in France you do see children at expensive restaurants mostly at lunchtime. They do seem to be well behaved even without the benefit of phones/Ipads. Though these were multigenerational family parties and the children had some attention. On top of which, eating in or out, lunches tend to be longer with no special children's food, and even school lunches can be three course. My DC benefited from learning from their behaviour and eating small portions of "adult" food eg ratatouille, steak tartare, oysters etc early on.

are they in high-end 200 europ a pop tasting-menu type places?

FWIW my DHs place wouldn't let them in if they looked under around 14, and probably not even then if they didn't already know the parents