Do children belong in a "fancy" restaurant?

[Puttingchildrenfirst]

Hello All!

I'm looking for people's thoughts on children in high end restaurants.

For context we were invited to a very high end restaurant this weekend (think £150 a head set tasting menu fine dining place) to celebrate a family members birthday (less than a weeks notice).

We have a toddler and a new baby so I declined as soon as I looked the restaurant up as I knew we couldn't organise childcare and husband was on call that night (needs to be near home).

Family wanted me to still come and bring the children but I declined as I really couldn't imagine wrangling a hungry toddler (no children's menu) and trying to latch a baby on while the couple on the next table celebrate their wedding anniversary!

I'll be honest I was also thinking of a popular thread on AIBU here recently where people were commenting on the behaviour of young children in a cafe at an aquarium. The consensus there was children shouldn't be in any sort of fancier restaurants!

However family think we're being overly precious to not bring the kids (and therefore not attend) and another thread yesterday had posters recommending a mum took her 8 month old to a 3 Michelin star restaurant.

If you were sat next to 2 kids under 3 at a very expensive restaurant... what would you be thinking?

For me personally, well-behaved fine - maybe. Toddlers and babies - not fine.

But most people in a high-class restaurant would not be happy to see any children, even well-behaved ones. In the UK, at least.

In any case, do you really want to be wrangling two tinies?

At a top restaurant we asked the water sommelier (oh yes) if we could just have a jug of tap water. He started with “I’m so sorry, Madam…”, then went on “that I can’t offer you your excellent Yorkshire water. We do however have a very acceptable London tap.” And he served it with as much ceremony as if it had been a fine wine. 😊

Lots of children are perfectly well behaved in a restaurant and have adults who spend time entertaining them or take them out if necessary. There are adults who are worse! It really depends on the children although I’d probably want to enjoy the meal without dealing with children if it was a one off expensive meal

We wouldn’t take our DS 7 to a fine dining restaurant. He knows how to behave at restaurants, however we wouldn’t particularly be bothered by other children if they were behaving at a fine dining restaurant (no running around/ screaming).

when eating out with DS we tend to go to very family focused restaurants and go early in the evening before 6pm.

We’ve had more problems with groups of adults drinking being loud than DS making noise. We went to a higher end restaurant around 5 years ago (without ds) and the waiter kept apologising for the table next to us behaviour (all adults) as they where so loud we couldn’t hear ourselves talking. They were asked multiple times to be more respectful. Manger ending up giving us free drinks/ money of the bill. So it’s not only kids who don’t know how to behave.

I think it depends:

• how are the children usually in restaurants? If generally quiet and still then fine, if more active then less so
• will the other adults share looking after the children or could you potentially be wrangling two at once?
• What time is the table booked for - lunch or 6pm is better than later
• a friend was getting married in a high end place and had invited me and my toddler but then I think had second thoughts and was wanting a child free wedding. She didn’t say anything but invited son and me to lunch there. All was fine and he was well behaved but I realised that his presence really would not work there in the evening. If the restaurant is local could you scope it out for yourself?

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Depends on fancy. Depends on ages and behaviour of children.
The fancier the more well behaved is required. Very small they may not be catered for at all. And consideration for other guests is important. The cost and ambience that other diners may be expecting could be ruined by a riotous meal time. Which simply isn't fair. Especially if you sort of guess your small person will be troublesome.

Some restaurants cope admirably with family and large family gatherings where small children preside. But, they are expected to be reasonably well behaved. No standing on chairs etc. Italian and Spanish restaurants spring to mind.

American style diners will be more accommodating or flexible on smaller eaters and manners. They focus on your wallet.

High end restaurants focus on your wallet but also on repeat high end customers.

Taking my baby to a fine dining restaurant I did unwittingly in Germany, invited by a business colleague of my father, so no idea what to expect and assumed the restaurant would be ‘suitable’ as colleague knew we had a little one with us.

The restaurant was beautiful, starched white linen, silver cutlery, cut glass crystal glasses, 6 courses - at that time the nicest place I had ever been. We had struggled to afford the prices of a pizza in normal eateries during our stay, so this was a real treat and on expenses....

DS was asleep when we arrived and the ‘helpful’ staff insisted on moving other customers chairs so that we could squash the pram beside us. I was mortified at this point, with everyone looking at us.

Then DS woke....he screamed and cried....we got no further than the starter before we felt we should leave.
Ended up back in the rented apartment eating the aforementioned, takeaway pizza!😏
So aggrieved at missing the fine dining.

This is a tricky one. I can see why your family want you there but as a mum of a 5yr old myself I personally wouldn’t go with my child. I’d find babysitter or not go at all if that wasn’t option. It just wouldn’t be enjoyable for me as I would spend whole time trying to keep child quiet and entertained while worrying about what other diners were thinking. I think if I went to restaurant and paid that amount of money I wouldn’t be impressed if a child was on next table being noisy and running around. I think go with your gut though. X

I’m 100% with you. Some kids are ready sooner than others, but my 3 year old is not ready for nice restaurants. We practice by taking him to casual restaurants for quit visits in the meantime. At a nice spot, it’s stressful for you and inconsiderate of the other diners who have paid quite a bit to have a savor meal.

My husband and I always joke, why would we pay that upcharge just to be stressed out and unable to enjoy our meal?

This is a moment in time. It’s not forever. One day you will be back in nice restaurants.

OP, you are completely right, and you're being considerate of others. Your family are being selfish. Stay strong, stay home, and enjoy a nice takeaway that night.

I’d hate it. Sometimes it’s fine for adults to be able to go somewhere where kids don’t. It changes the atmosphere/ambiance (whatever) when little people are there, regardless of how well behaved they are.

I wouldn't have a problem sat next to children rather a crying baby than drunk adult... and most babies don't cry that much.
Depends a bit on temperament of toddler whether I would go. I would have taken mine when 1 or 2 but maybe not now he is older and more challenging...I might take him now if I knew other adults going who would help.

Newborns, absolutely - I took mine everywhere with me when that age, most of the time they sleep or you can latch them on on your lap & carry on with your conversation.

Toddlers definitely not! I can't think of anything more stressful & annoying than having to deal with a wayward toddler in "that" kind of environment.

A loud toddler or crying baby WOULD ruin my night!

And?

I don’t know what that was!

Anyway; I’m with the general consensus: absolutely not. I don’t want to hear children or babies in a nice restaurant.

I completely agree with this.

Mine is good at formal meals - managed to sit quietly through a three hour wedding reception - but I wouldn't want to take them. Because I wouldn't be able to focus properly on the posh meal or conversation so it would be a waste of £150. Nor would they appreciate the expensive food themselves!

I'd have no problem sitting next to a toddler if they were quiet and well behaved. Probably I'd admire the parents. Obviously wouldn't want a rowdy child with no table manners there.

Absolutely wouldn't have a problem with a newborn or breastfeeding but if it cried would expect it to be taken out.

A toddler wont want to keep still for 2-3 hours in a restaurant. They will want to be exploring. And you have an even younger one as well which will likely cry at some point. You could always say yes sure Ill come but you lot can look after the kids and actually give me a night off. See how your family changes their tune then.

I am genuinely surprised how many people take young DC to £150+/head restaurants.

Just a different world to me.

This is not entitled or pretentious, most people in the UK just don’t understand how it works in a lot of Europe. These children are not bullied into submission, it is a way of life.

In France, at the age of 3 when starting school, lunch will be at least 4 courses and the children will be sitting for an hour, soup/salad, starter, main, dessert &/or cheese. Meals at home will be the same if not more courses. Socialisation starts at a young age and they will always be included.

There is also no such thing as eating at 5pm, restaurants are closed, children tend to stay up later as the little ones will sleep at school, they are at school until 5pm. Some restaurants have introduced children’s menus but mainly for tourists I think as French children eat almost everything.

I lived in France for many years, my children were born there, I have never seen French children running around a restaurant or sitting with an iPad.

Its a cultural difference with different expectations, we should learn from it!

A crying newborn or loud toddler aren't going to ruin anyone's night

They very well could if other guests want a quiet enjoyable night.

It’s well known that a baby’s cry has a note in it which many people hear and respond to - it’s a survival thing, but it’s stressful for those around the baby. iIt’s not something that can be easily ignored.

And someone else’s loud toddler in an adult space in the evening is just annoying.

"A crying newborn or loud toddler aren't going to ruin anyone's night*"
*
Seriously?? This may come as a shock, but not everyone likes your kids as much as you do.

Would depend on the children's behaviour. If they're content and fairly quiet, no issue
However if there is screaming / crying / shouting likely...then no, id not be happy at all

High end dining is 4+ hours. Show me a single small child on this planet that would enjoy that.

However, I do! I want to eat incredible food and be spoilt for the insane money I’m spending on the experience without anyone’s (my own included!) child ruining it. Don’t get to do it very often, so when I do it’s meant to be an escape from reality.

Unless it’s obviously geared up for kids don’t bring them. No one apart from you wants them there.