Is it possible to emulate private school education if you have motivated parents on a budget?!

[Explodingatomickittens]

Can't afford private school, dd year 6 & ds year old 5... What extracurriculars do private schools provide? What are the main differences & how can we compansate?

I kind of agree, but I do think it works both ways.

I've worked with a lot of poorer people who are snobby and standoffish, and limited in their world view, because their world is in its own way as narrow as some rich people's.

I actually work in a charity where I sit between know-nothing rich people on the donor side and undereducated service users, and they have a lot in common in terms of lack of knowledge and appreciation of the other. The former don't have much of an excuse, I'll grant you.

I guess if they are donating money they probably have some idea what for.

You'd be surprised how many do it because it gives them the warm fuzzies without a proper understanding.

I was drafted in to give a presentation recently to a poverty action group on a project I knew nothing about. Why? Because they'd met me once before and I am a middle class, well spoken woman. They specifically rejected and were spectacularly rude to the actual project manager, and kept picking on her language, grammar and general background.

The poor woman was in tears, and it's fucking awful. They wanted the "naice middle class" lady to speak to them, not the woman with far more knowledge and experience, who was also from the very group they wanted to support.

Oh no please do not constantly grill your children as suggested! I remember a road trip to Europe with some Americans - daughter 7 - and everything was a history or spelling lesson! Poor kid couldn't comment on the pretty flowers without a whole discussion about what they meant, how they were significant, how birds distributed seeds etc.
it's the small class sizes, expectation of academic rigour and intolerance of poor behaviour that marks out private schools. Good facilities too. Not sure the extracurriculars are that much different in the main.

My own feeling is that private schools seem to be able to instill a level of confidence that is hard to match. I went to a crappy school, followed by a very selective one, and then to a top 5 UK uni. You could tell at Uni who had been to private school/boarding school- most people - and I felt like there was a level of confidence that most others just didn’t have. I don’t know if that comes from a place of great financial security during upbringing, a huge mix of environments and greater ‘exposure’ to the world. I did notice that many of my friends and other students who had been through private education also had lived in lots of different places, often around the world. I wonder if it’s this wider exposure that gives confidence as you grow up. Obviously there’s all the extra curricular stuff and sport but I think you can emulate that quite well regardless of state or private. I wouldn’t have said we were a particularly clever bunch; but maybe more that our academic results were just because we were able to apply ourselves- perhaps that is also learnt; like a pp said with a lot of focus on achieving a certain outcome and feeling like there are very strong expectations. I’m not saying either state or public is good or better etc; I think children can thrive in either depending on the child and setting. I’m surprised at those questioning why op is interested in emulating a private setting; I would have thought the increase in life chances is obvious. I don’t think my son will be going to private school but I am not naive to the competition he would face in certain settings from those that have been through private education. X

Yes, I agree with you re poorer people who can be snobby and standoffish. And of course, a lot of that is also about education - a good state school might make a difference to the children of these people and be something they DID not have access to. While ironically perhaps, for some private school-educated children, it's their education that gives them this sense of entitlement and snobbiness.

Of course, it's not always the case, I'm speaking in generalities.

I think there is a huge difference between the public (Eton etc) schools and normal private schools. My kids are at a private school and it doesn't turn them into Boris Johnson types. It's just a private day school. For me the big attraction was sport (state schools don't put enough of an emphasis on it; all my friends with sporty kids at state schools have to do everything outside school) and lack of disruption. You only need a couple of rowdy kids to spoil it for everyone.

Given the accents, I think I can guess as to their backgrounds. I certainly wouldn't want my kids sitting in a classroom with kids like this.

twitter.com/search?q=ashford%20fight&src=typeahead_click

That's hideous. I'd honestly rather my dd was a bit of a snob than have to spend any time with people like that.

What @DarkNurseries said. The cleverest, most interesting people I know are not - by a long way- the ones who went to private school. Generally if you want your child to be educated in the true sense of the word, cutting them off from 90% of people around them is not, IMO, a very smart thing to do. Follow some of the advice on this thread and your kids will be just fine!

I've worked with a lot of poorer people who are snobby and standoffish, and limited in their world view, because their world is in its own way as narrow as some rich people's.

This is interesting. I once had a colleague from a poor background. She looked down on people who weren’t from an urban background, and looked down at those from a farming background in particularly. It was surreal to hear her very strong sneers about farming and in the same breath talk about her family going to food banks. . It made me realise there is always a ‘pecking order’ but order is very varied!

I wouldn't say it's possible to emulate that experience, even a day pupil. It's not really about the extra curricular, only some of which might be fine through/at school.

Home education - structured method? I know of one person who does this.

What about the private school do you aspire to offer your children? MN consensus is that the states lack in cultural exposure but I’m not convinced that is the biggest thing to aspire to.

Even if out of budget, go view your local privates - ideally on an open day/morning as you will be able to speak to the children. Find out more about what they offer and what you like about them and this should help you establish what you want to offer your child.

For my DC’s prep school, I was extremely impressed at how the children’s confidence and how were able to articulate themselves. It was also clear that they valued education as a whole and I loved speaking to them about their dreams and aspirations. There are other things too. Seeing this and what they do in a day will help you work out what aspects of the education appeal to you to try and emulate.

As others have said, extra curricular can be done by taking your children outside school and this often widens their social circle. It is the academic side and instilling confidence that is a bit harder as it is subtly done all day everyday in school

Definitely yes for primary. Less sure about secondary -- I fear that's less likely.

We took ours out of the system from mid Year 4 to end of Year 6, and put back in for secondary. They thrived academically (happy to let you have a list of resources decent private schools use), socially (through a large group of friend with whom they met up 2-3 times a week to play in the woods), musically (shot up to 2-3 grade in a year), and succeeded in finding sports they like (and are really good at). You can also add anything else that is important to you: travel, specific subjects like modern or ancient languages, classics or chess. The catch? It is incredibly exhausting, especially if you work full time. You have to have a job you can do at home and/or at odd hours.

Secondary provides lots of great extra curricular opportunities, such as language exchanges, sports fixtures, competitions, concerts, house events, residentials and educational trips that are just very tricky to organise yourself. We did do similar things, but nowhere near as much as the school can do as they simply have more resources than two exhausted, sleep-deprived parents.

Sorry, if you can't afford private education you probably can't afford home education either!
Supplement what you can with tutoring and extra curricular then, if that's within your budget.

Have you applied for scholarships and bursaries though? @Explodingatomickittens

But you can't surely be using this single- absolutely hideous and abhorrent- event to tar the whole state system? Because that would be ridiculous and in fact a prime example of the kind of illogical thinking that surely the private sector drums out of people at a very early stage, no?

No of course not. Although lots of unintelligent stereotypes about private school kids seem absolutely fine.

@mondaytosunday "it's the small class sizes, expectation of academic rigour and intolerance of poor behaviour that marks out private schools."

100% agree with this.

Such a ridiculous statement.

For a start, state schools vary widely so please don't lump them all together.

Also, it might be done differently but I'm fully aware of bullying and shitty behaviour in private schools. Believe me, it doesn't magically disappear becuase it's a "decent cohort" or whatever it was that some other poster said.

@MsMarch bullying and shitty behaviour yes - kids getting attacked at school / playground fights, not really.

Attended a private school and I don't remember any fights happening (albeit yes there was bullying)

At uni, was shocked that a number of people from secondary state schools in big cities talked about pretty violent incidents and fights both during school hours, but especially after school.

Perhaps my school was unique, but physical fighting is rare at private schools as it results in an immediate expulsion.

Also, it might be done differently but I'm fully aware of bullying and shitty behaviour in private schools. Believe me, it doesn't magically disappear becuase it's a "decent cohort" or whatever it was that some other poster said.

Of course it does @MsMarch Bullying existed in private schools when I was a girl and it goes on now.

Though I'd stick my neck out and say, from anecdotal, second hand examples only, that the bullying in state schools sounds worse (a friend whose child was being bullied horribly, on a daily basis, had to find another state school out of the area eventually).

Funny you mention rural vs urban!

I grew up in a rural area, and it's not very diverse - but my city friends wax on about the diversity of their city, when essentially it boils down to "I like the fact that this city has ghettos which I literally never visit from my white enclave". They're much more naturally scared of BAME people, whereas growing up in the country, I didn't encounter many, but I don't assume that a group of black kids are out to mug me.

(I don't actually hang out with these people much any more BTW, partly due to reasons like this!)

Attended a private school and I don't remember any fights happening (albeit yes there was bullying)

Of course, becuase severe bullying is SOOOO Much better than physical fights? Also, let's not forget that some of he worst historical cases of long term sexual abuse were in private boarding schools.

Sorry, the snobbiness of "well, it's just not as bad in a private school" is bollocks. Plus, private school rich parents are just as bad at not seeing the reality of shitty b ehaviou from their precious darlings as the rest. Believe me.

I went to a comp.

This behaviour isn't 'standard', but I don't think it would be that unusual in certain catchment areas - e.g. those close to 'caravan parks'.

Being clever wasn't cool and I was bullied and unpopular. All classes were disrupted by a minority of idiots. I sat in class, zoned out the chaos, and read the (very interesting) textbooks. The teachers were, as a rule, actually very good and genuinely cared about the kids.

For sixth form I attended a grammar school. Some of the teachers very much looked down on the intake of kids from the comps and the assignment of teachers was, in my opinion, very unfair - we got all the crap teachers. Occasionally, we'd have another teacher cover a lesson and the difference in quality was stark. Unsurprisingly, none of the comp kids did very well at A Levels - which probably reinforced their prejudices and resulted in the crap teachers being assigned for the next comp intake. The fact that none of the comp parents were familiar with the teaching staff, probably helped them get away with it.

Seeing how the kids, who attended the grammar from the age of eleven, have done in later life, I'd say they certainly instill a level of self belief that just doesn't exist in standard state schools.

We have grammar schools in our area and will try to send our boys there. I might even be tempted to 'return home' and send them to the boy's grammar in my home town.

I’m taking your public schools friends with a big pinch of salt.
Because if you are such a committed reverse snob, why would you tolerate their presence?