Is it possible to emulate private school education if you have motivated parents on a budget?!

[Explodingatomickittens]

Can't afford private school, dd year 6 & ds year old 5... What extracurriculars do private schools provide? What are the main differences & how can we compansate?

I have children in the state and private school systems.

The things I think the private school gives my child over the things the state school gives his twin are;

An expectation that he question and challenge things. Not just academically, but also how things work, what doesn't work, why, how could it be better, how can you make it better, with who, how will you start .... a feeling that he as much a leader in his school as anyone else, not just part of the system.

A sense of pride and self-worth. Smart, high quality uniform. Historic buildings. Structured relationship with the Church.

Responsibility for himself and his time and his belongings. Expected to be in the right place at the right time doing the right thing and with all the right equipment, without much instruction and no mollycoddling. If he gets it wrong then they support him to figure out why, find his own solution for that day, make a plan so it doesn't happen again, and put in a review date to discuss whether the plan is helping.

They don't turn a blind eye. If there's a rule, then they notice if it's not kept to. The state school says no leggings, but at the end of the day they don't have the time or resources to tackle the fact that half the girls don't own anything except leggings. IMO they do the right thing by not punishing those girls, but ultimately that just means the rule is meaningless. In private school they notice if you don't have the right things; first time you're sent to the shop to get a new one and they add it to the parents bill; second time kicks off the "solve you're own problems" approach to making sure it doesn't happen again.

The pace of life is different. Private school is fast paced, 6 days per week, plus homework and sport in addition. They get used to doing a lot of things all the time. State school is 9-3 Monday to Friday and a lot of free time.

Just some thoughts ...

@HappyAsASandboy At DS state school, much of what your private school does is in place - lots of support and processes to help him figure out how to do things independently and they absolutely do notice when rules are not followed etc.

That's not private vs state. That's good vs bad. And you can have bad private and bad state. The school my nephew used to go to was private but appalling and I cheered out loud when he was removed and sent to a different school.

Anyone who assumes private schools are just "better" categorically are missing a trick. Just like around here there are 3 state high schools. Two have long histories, a track record of academic excellence etc. The third is a modern school, was not doing so well for a while but has seen significant investment, a new head and slow but steady academic improvement. I had to stop getting into conversations with people about what schools they were sending their children to because so often they wouldn't even go LOOK at the third school but just made assumptions about it.

I've had four in a mix of state and private. Our local state comp is good but the main advantage of the private school is that they are incredibly organised and the teachers tend to stay for years. Dd had five different maths teachers in 2 years at our state school. She loves the organisation, everything is on laptops, they use Teams and Onenote for everything, all cross referenced and she finds revision really easy due to this. Sports matches are never cancelled, all the teachers know her.

If you have a really good state school nearby though I probably wouldn't bother with private, particularly as some get lower offers from universities.

While the "decent cohort" may sound offensive, has anyone seen the appalling video of the mum egging her 10, 11 and [14] daughters on outside the school gates of a school in ashford, Surrey to beat up another 14yo, including encouraging them to stamp on the girl's head etc.

Sorry but that simply does not happen at private schools. You simply don't get parents like this and would not have a headteacher idly stand on watching helplessly because he would know the parents (and likely their family lawyer) would be in his office within a day of the incident.

It varies so much school to school and the personality of your child. I think most private schools will select pupils that will do well in their particular environment, and they have niches like academic boys, sporty co-ed, quirky drama types with no uniform etc wheras most state schools have to take whoever turns up. In terms of recreating it, i suppose find your childs niche and if its drama join a club and do village am dram, or if its sports do the same.

I haven't seen the video you mention, but this would not have happened at my dd's state school either. And very few state school headteachers would stand idly by while this kind of thing was happening!

Anyway, if you think all private school kids are nice, decent kids, you're kidding yourself. Our local private school had a massive problem with racist bullying a few years ago, and there are ongoing problems with drugs etc.

Personally, one of the reasons we chose not to send dd to a private school was because of the cohort. She went to a very middle class primary school and learned to be so much more open-minded and less judgemental as a result of going to a secondary school with a more diverse socio-economic background. Ultimately, I suppose it depends on your values and what you want for your child, I guess.

I’m sorry, am I mistaken, or did you just imply state educated children are more likely to be nicer people, compared to privately educated?

There are drugs in all schools, state or private, plus racist bullies exist everywhere, sadly. At least at private school disruptive kids can be chucked out. I must say we live very rurally so our local school is almost 100 percent white, whereas dds private day and boarding school has a large proportion of black and Asian pupils. Not economically diverse I will admit!

Oh that's often implied on here!

Yes, of course, these problems exist anywhere, though the drug problems in private schools often involve harder drugs simply because kids have more money to spend.

And yes, private schools can kick troublesome kids out. That doesn't always mean that they do... the school that I mentioned above was accused of deliberately turning a blind eye to the racism problem over a period of many years because it was concerned about bad publicity.

My point is merely that you will get nice and not-so-nice kids anywhere. You can't simply buy nice friends for your dc, and you would do better trying to bring them up with strong values so that they are able to make positive choices for themselves, regardless of what type of school they go to.

Yes of course. Dd and her friends have very strong values, are compassionate and thoughtful. They are lovely kids and I'm proud of them, and so are the school.

I don't think it's about nice vs not nice. I know lots of people who were privately educated, and with some exceptions, most of them are very nice.

I think it is more a question of the values that you think are important. Those will be different for all of us. For some people, their values will incline them more towards private education and they will make all sorts of sacrifices in order to afford this. For others, their values will incline them more towards putting their kids through the state system, even if they could comfortably afford private. All of us will have different ideas about what's important, hence my initial advice to the OP to consider exactly what it is about private education that she thinks she might wish to emulate.

I've taught in state primary schools in the UK and in a private British International School following the IB alongside the National Curriculum.

I would agree with all of the above. What I noticed was mainly a difference in the mindset attached to learning and that "learning' was an active process.

Have a look at the IB Learner Profile. It covers what as learners we should strive to be - Inquirers, Knowledgeable, Thinkers, Communicators, Principled, Open-Minded, Caring, Risk-Takers, Balanced and Reflective. Even though I left that post four years ago, and now work in a very different setting, I still use that language at work and with my son. All of those skills can be applied to any curriculum area, or interest, or age group. At the moment, I am trying to get my son to be more flexible and confident to try new things, so I throw in a couple of comments about being a risk-taker. So many things going on in the world that lead to discussions about being open-minded etc There are so many things online that can explain all of this so much better than I have.

What I'm trying to say is that it's not just the content of the learning that matters but the process of active learning that plays a huge part.

FWIW, I did the IB at a many years ago at a state school that absolutely embraced the IB's overall ethos. So that kind of approach isn't necessarily limited to the private sector.

So much depends on the individual school and its ethos, culture etc. I don't think it's always possible to generalise.

I went to a state grammar school which got (and still gets) better academic results than many private schools. We had the opportunity to play sports, learn musical instruments, go on ski trips etc but I also did extra-curricular activities outside of school which probably taught me as much as those in school and definitely gave me a wider circle of experiences and friendships that I would ever have got through school.
My friends kids go to a private school which gets average academic results and they do everything through school so constantly mixing with the same group of kids which I don't think is particularly healthy (not to mention they're there from 8am - 5pm or even later most days which also seems like a long day to be in one place when you're only 11).

It’s not the private education. You can never ever learn enough social codes, build enough capital, or networks because it’s not really about that. It’s about locking the majority out. You honestly can’t emulate it.

My children are at superselective grammars where a large percentage of the cohort have come from prep schools. DH and I both went to private school all the way through, but deliberately moved to an area with outstanding schools once we realised 4 sets of secondary private fees would be beyond us financially. The boys are essentially at a private school that we don't pay for - the teaching is outstanding, the sport is excellent (and they play many of the 'big' private schools on Saturdays), the drama, art and music is as valued as the academic side, and there is a strong extra curricular programme - which pre-Covid included trips to the UN for the MUNGA programme, sports trips to Argentiana/South Africa/Dubai etc. My eldest son fenced and did high level debating and mock trials etc and is now at Cambridge - I think he probably had more opportunities than I did at my boarding school. Sadly, my daughter's school is less strong on the extras but is very strong on the academic stuff....

The cultural capital is something that you can imbue them with, by going to galleries, museums, theatre, opera, concerts, talking about life, the universe and everything at the table when you eat, ensuring that they have decent table manners, and can hold a conversation, make eye contact etc etc. and if you aren't paying fees, then there is more money for skiing and interesting holidays.

Private school can add polish and grant those who attend a self confidence which it may be difficult to emulate - but not all state schools are bad and not all private schools are good.....!

Honestly, it is more about the school than private vs state, BUT when people on here say "I went to a grammar and it was just the same", that is kind of the point of why some people choose private, ie they either want a homogeneous quite bright intake (everyone assumes their kids are or will be) or additional resources to ensure everyone can be well taught. Grammar and private school parents are basically very similar demographics. So criticising a private school with a grammar school is a bit silly really - most go private when they don't have an equivalent grammar (or leafy state where pretty much all parents are aspirational and people help with fundraising) school.

I was one of those kids who "would have done well anywhere". Oxbridge degree, 2 county level sports. However, I went to a comp and aside from my first year maths teacher no one ever pushed me or really inspired me - I got A*s easily without really knowing myself and what I was really good at because I basically taught myself lots of things from a textbook. I was bullied and avoided social interactions and am still scarred today. I have very low self esteem - my parents weren't really people who did cultural capital actively - they did buy newspapers and I read them from cover to cover and learned a lot about the world, but we didn't discuss world issues at home, both parents non graduates and didn't know a lot about that world. I think I would probably have had a lot more help to be more worldly, confident in my abilities and outward looking at a private school. If you have parents who can do that well and a decent school on your doorstep, then you might not need private school. But it isn't true to say that "bright kids do well anywhere" unless you just mean purely on academics.

The thing I, and my kids, valued the most about a private education was the opportunity to spend their schooldays in lovely surroundings, in classes where there was no disruptive behaviour because it wasn’t tolerated and with motivated teachers who would happily chat to me about their progress/welfare any time I asked. It was never about the academics for me although I do believe that all of them achieved to the best of their abilities (the two eldest have post grad Uni qualifications, youngest just started Uni). It is easy to offer extra curricular activities, take them to the ballet etc. and of course if you can’t afford private schooling these are good things to do but what you cannot emulate is their day to day experience of attending school for so many years. We made lots of sacrifices for education which I will never regret.

People usually assume my sister and I were privately educated.

For us, the answer is:

• Books, books, so many books. Weekly visits to the library.
• Be quite traditional in the educational culture. National Trust memberships, Academic clubs, horse riding as a hobby, rugby as a sport, children's versions of classical Greek and Roman mythology, and learn French.

Of course, your child might not be interested in any of those things. But you asked what works, and that's it. Football might be a sport as much as Rugby is, but if you want to conform to the markers of private education, you go for the latter.

Mmm, I can see how that didn't come across well. But yes, sort of I did. "Nicer" is probably the wrong word. Open minded, less privileged might be better. And yes, I appreciate the might not go down well here. I also fully appreciate that it's a generalised statement and of course is not definitively nor always true.

We have family at private schools and have got to know many of their friends. Overall, all very nice people who I genuinely like. BUT.... also a little bit clueless about how the bulk of the population live and the challenges they face and it drives me mad and no, I don't want my children to grow up like that.

You can never make up for the smaller classes that a prep has but you can add value to a state education. Music, dance, acting class and competitive sport can all be taken as extras and the shorter state day allows for it.
You must always be aware that there are 30 children in a class and your child does not get much individual attention so reading, maths puzzles and the like can be scheduled into their time at home. Books, museum and theatre visits can be enjoyed as a family.
My daughters had a mix of state primary, grammar and private 6th form. They have gone on to attend RG universities. I don’t believe they have missed out in any way from not having had a private education from aged 5.

I don't think it's about being nicer.

I do think that kids who go to typical state schools (ie not the ultra middle class leafy ones!) are generally more socially aware/conscious of their own privilege than kids who go to typical private schools. Certainly, that's what I have observed over the years, and it's one of the factors that led us to choose state over private for our dd.

I fully accept that different people will have different priorities, like the poster above who values the nice surroundings of her dc's private school. I would certainly agree that our local private schools offer more aesthetically pleasing environments than the local state schools, but for us, that did not seem in the slightest bit important.

We will all place value on the things that matter to us. Clearly, those things won't be the same for everyone, so what might look like fantastic value for some might seem quite unappealing to others.

Agreed. But you forgot to add…

…And so will children who have the privilege of wealth.

It's easy to give them enrichment if you are motivated. Just take them to exhibitions in galleries and museums, to concerts, gigs, talks and readings - all age appropriate or linked to their interests - don't force culture down their throats. We used to take DC to look at a single painting in the National Gallery followed by cake in the cafe. Then extened it to 2 paintings, then 3. By Yr 6 they were dragging us around Venice Biennale and I was the grumpy exhausted one who felt cultured-out and wanted tea and cake.

Read to them and listen to good audio books on long car journeys. Buy First News and then The Week for them to read on train journeys. Cook different cuisines, listen to wide ranging music.

Spend money on sport and music - if you want them to fit in socially with wealthy kids, then getting good at skiing and tennis are priorities. IMe wealthy people love to socialise around those two activities. Playing an instrument to grade 8 is also fairly commonplace.

But the two main things you can teach them are critical thinking and pride in academic excellence. Critical thinking you can do simply by getting them to look at both sides of an argument. Maybe get them to join something like ESU's debating groups (when they are old enough). Get them to be critical of 'statistics' in adverts and articles.

I could get flamed for this, but I think pride in academic excellence is the hardest thing to foster because there can be a lot of peer pressure to dumb down, conform, not be a swot etc. The brightest kids can get bullied for being snobby or swotty or square. This was hte main reason I sent DC to a private secondary. Their friends were so genuinely proud of them when they succeeded. Whereas even the teachers at my school (and at DC's state primary) thought being very clever was showing off (But being brilliant at football or dance was uh-may-zing!) I loathed that inverse snobbery. They need to develop a very thick skin against it wihtout becoming snobbish or arrogant themselves.