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Original poster

'But women do that too...'

217 replies

workistoomuch · 08/02/2023 20:43

Discussing the Epsom college case with DH and I said 'how can a man to do that' and dh went mental saying women do that too and that I should say person and I'm associating him with it. I am unbelievably angry at him because it is a man who did that. What is wrong with saying that?!

I pointed out even if I had said human that associates him as he is a human. I could have said mammal, I could have said brown eyed person, but I said man and he's flipped out. He won't respond to my question about being human.

I don't understand how he can't see how ridiculous he's being and that he sounds like some kind of mens rights activist 😓

OP posts:
BeautifulDayintheneighbourhood · 09/02/2023 17:52

BigglyBee · 08/02/2023 21:05

I can remember hearing (rarely) about women who have killed themselves and their children, and of course women commit murder of partners too. But the whole family being killed and then the perpetrator killing themselves seems to be mostly a male thing.

And the statistics are quite clear that most violent crime is committed by men. Some women are violent too, but that doesn't change that the biggest danger to women is men.

Women very rarely keep guns or know how to use them so it’s not really a comparison.

MrsTerryPratchett · 09/02/2023 18:00

You know what I just saw on FB that cheered me up? One of my male friends, fanatical football fan, replying to a post on one of his many fan sites, commenting about Mason Greenwood.

He is factual, very direct, and takes no shit from wankers about women's rights. Challenges rape myths and is curt with idiots. He's raised four boys so thank fuck for men like him.

Jellycatspyjamas · 09/02/2023 19:08

Women very rarely keep guns or know how to use them so it’s not really a comparison.

Maybe think about why one half of the population is much more likely to keep guns or know how to use them. That’s the comparison to be made.

BeautifulDayintheneighbourhood · 09/02/2023 19:50

Yea very true. Men are socialised to be interested in aggression and killing however. Who buys violent video games? Who watches violent porn? Who shoots defenceless animals? Men in the main. Little boys are given toy guns. What is that teaching them?

itsgettingweird · 09/02/2023 20:06

You are actually saying “maybe she was a victim and retaliated or maybe vice versa?”

She slapped him, he shot his wife and child dead and you’re considering maybe he was her victim and he retaliated??? Fuck me I despair

I'm not saying anything. That's exactly what my post was about.

Im waiting until the full report with this info.

Icanbelieveithappened · 09/02/2023 20:10

itsgettingweird · 09/02/2023 20:06

You are actually saying “maybe she was a victim and retaliated or maybe vice versa?”

She slapped him, he shot his wife and child dead and you’re considering maybe he was her victim and he retaliated??? Fuck me I despair

I'm not saying anything. That's exactly what my post was about.

Im waiting until the full report with this info.

You’re keeping an open mind on it, as you think there’s a possibility that she was an abuser and he retaliated by killing them
all. Good luck with that “full report” that you’re expecting. Most of us don’t need that to tell us what happened here.

Jellycatspyjamas · 09/02/2023 20:15

I can find you stories of women killing their kids, husband, groups, crowds. I don't want to because who TF wants to seek that info. It's there if you want

You’d need to go some to find a female perpetrator of family annihilation- ie including her partner, it’s a particularly me crime usually in the context of an abusive relationship. I find the “bit women are violent too” argument a denial of the problem of male violence against women particularly which doesn’t serve us well in protecting women.

JassyRadlett · 09/02/2023 20:24

Jellycatspyjamas · 09/02/2023 19:08

Women very rarely keep guns or know how to use them so it’s not really a comparison.

Maybe think about why one half of the population is much more likely to keep guns or know how to use them. That’s the comparison to be made.

And guns aren't even the weapons of choice for family annihilators in the UK anyway, based on the academic literature. Knives and carbon monoxide are pretty equal opportunity weapons in terms of availability.

itsgettingweird · 09/02/2023 20:44

You’re keeping an open mind on it, as you think there’s a possibility that she was an abuser and he retaliated by killing them
all. Good luck with that “full report” that you’re expecting. Most of us don’t need that to tell us what happened here.

It's really not difficult. I'm not thinking anything right now.
I thought it very interesting they kept showing the clip of her saying her husband unexpectedly changed his job interesting.

I'd decided that he must be to blame before it came out.

However this new information has come out that possibly indicates an alternative narrative.

What he did was abhorrent. I wouldn't excuse any sexual if snapping or victim blame.

But like some others in here I'm interested in the findings of the report purely because why she hit him sheds some new light.

It's entirely possible he was abusing her then and that's why she did it. I don't excuse that but I'm keeping an open mind.

Being open doesn't mean taking either side or thinking one side was right and the other not wrong.

It's quite simple.

CatsEatDogs · 09/02/2023 20:47

itsgettingweird · 09/02/2023 20:44

You’re keeping an open mind on it, as you think there’s a possibility that she was an abuser and he retaliated by killing them
all. Good luck with that “full report” that you’re expecting. Most of us don’t need that to tell us what happened here.

It's really not difficult. I'm not thinking anything right now.
I thought it very interesting they kept showing the clip of her saying her husband unexpectedly changed his job interesting.

I'd decided that he must be to blame before it came out.

However this new information has come out that possibly indicates an alternative narrative.

What he did was abhorrent. I wouldn't excuse any sexual if snapping or victim blame.

But like some others in here I'm interested in the findings of the report purely because why she hit him sheds some new light.

It's entirely possible he was abusing her then and that's why she did it. I don't excuse that but I'm keeping an open mind.

Being open doesn't mean taking either side or thinking one side was right and the other not wrong.

It's quite simple.

Lost for words

RoseslnTheHospital · 09/02/2023 20:57

@itsgettingweird I'm interested that you've completely accepted that she did in fact slap him. Despite the fact that he didn't continue with the police and she was released without any consequence. You're happy that his account is correct. Despite your open mind.

Goawayangryman · 09/02/2023 20:58

It's entirely possible overwhelmingly likely that she did not ever hit him, and he called the police to threaten her because he was engaging in absolutely classic DARVO behaviour: Deny, Attack, Reverse Victim and Offender

You know, like the innumerable men who report their female ex partners to the police, social services, their kids' school, and whoever will listen, in a pathetic attempt to keep control and to punish her for leaving.

CatsEatDogs · 10/02/2023 06:02

Goawayangryman · 09/02/2023 20:58

It's entirely possible overwhelmingly likely that she did not ever hit him, and he called the police to threaten her because he was engaging in absolutely classic DARVO behaviour: Deny, Attack, Reverse Victim and Offender

You know, like the innumerable men who report their female ex partners to the police, social services, their kids' school, and whoever will listen, in a pathetic attempt to keep control and to punish her for leaving.

I agree with this. I doubt that she ever hit him at all. Classic abuser tactic to let her know who was in control of the situation. And he really was as it turns out wasn’t he. So terribly sad and I am raging that people seem to consider that the police involvement means that she could have been abusing him. He killed her and it could have been her fault? No. No. No.

BeautifulDayintheneighbourhood · 10/02/2023 14:42

JassyRadlett · 09/02/2023 20:24

And guns aren't even the weapons of choice for family annihilators in the UK anyway, based on the academic literature. Knives and carbon monoxide are pretty equal opportunity weapons in terms of availability.

Show quote history

Well of course they’re not. Guns are strictly controlled here . In the US shootings are much more common. I don’t understand why he had a licence though.

GaladrielHiggins · 10/02/2023 14:49

Does your DH not realise that men are the greatest threat to other men as well?

JassyRadlett · 11/02/2023 09:49

BeautifulDayintheneighbourhood · 10/02/2023 14:42

Well of course they’re not. Guns are strictly controlled here . In the US shootings are much more common. I don’t understand why he had a licence though.

Show quote history

The quote history hasn't picked up the full context here - this was all in response to a PP suggesting that higher rates of male violence and family annihilators being male were down to access to and skill with guns.

The weapons of choice argument undermines the contention that there's only more male violence because blokes are keener on guns.

WinterFoxes · 11/02/2023 11:38

lljkk · 08/02/2023 21:00

I can find you stories of women killing their kids, husband, groups, crowds. I don't want to because who TF wants to seek that info. It's there if you want.

It's nothing like as commonplace, though.

FlutterShite · 11/02/2023 16:45

Those who keep posting links to stories about women doing the killing. I'm interested to know - what is your end goal here? Are you hoping everyone will all say "Ah - you got us. Let's stop talking about the problem of men killing women and their children"? Nobody is saying that women never kill. Nobody. We're not stupid. So what's the purpose in trying to derail or weaken the discussion about the proven pattern of men doing the vast majority of the killing?

SweetPetrichor · 11/02/2023 16:53

I doubt we’ll ever know but I think there was more to this than meets the eye. Previous signs of DV…did that ever stop behind closed doors. There’s such a stigma against male victims of DV. Doesn’t forgive killing an innocent child though. It’s tragic all round and I doubt we’ll know the cause because what goes on behind closed doors is seen by nobody but the family.

AdamRyan · 11/02/2023 16:59

Also:

  1. "Lindsay Clancy strangled her three kids while on 13 psychiatric drugs. Can postpartum psychosis be a defence?" www.google.com/amp/s/www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/crime/lindsay-clancy-duxbury-murder-charges-kids-b2278399.html%3famp
  1. Fron the link: "A retired accountant who stabbed her husband to death has told a jury that he repeatedly beat her and once held a knife to her throat,"
  1. From the link: "Detective said he wouldn't speculate on history of mental illness, post-partum psychosis"
  1. From the link: "She later told the police that Atul would often beat her and spend her salary on liquor and, therefore, she took this extreme step."
  1. From the link: "A young woman has been arrested for murdering her abusive husband and chopping him into pieces before cooking his remains."
  1. From the link: "A woman along with her paramour allegedly strangulated her husband to death and buried his body in a 25-feet deep toilet pit at her home in Punjab's Sangrur district, police on Saturday said"
  1. From the link: "King told FBI agents she had wondered if her husband and her brothers were going to harm her, so she decided she would kill them first"

How are any of these equivalent to male family annihilators?

Stop lazy googling and pretending women "do it too"

newnamethanks · 11/02/2023 17:00

Too much Andrew bloody Tate who is simply a bragging psychopath. Sadly, more and more men think he's making valid points and emulating him. Someone said to me yesterday "only men could oppress women for thouands of years then turn around, put on a dress and complain they are the most marginalised group in society" Kara Dansky. You'd better have a firm chat with him.

Answerthequestionplease · 11/02/2023 17:11

SweetPetrichor · 11/02/2023 16:53

I doubt we’ll ever know but I think there was more to this than meets the eye. Previous signs of DV…did that ever stop behind closed doors. There’s such a stigma against male victims of DV. Doesn’t forgive killing an innocent child though. It’s tragic all round and I doubt we’ll know the cause because what goes on behind closed doors is seen by nobody but the family.

Ah yes it was bound to be Emma’s fault wasn’t it. I can’t keep reading this shit over and over. After everything he did, we’re still getting people suggesting there was dv in this relationship etc etc. yes focus on one slap why don’t you. Not why she slapped him or even if she actually did. Or that he shot his own family. No, let’s not focus on that. Let’s think about the slap and call Emma violent
makes me sick