Pretty sure Paris Hilton wasn't pregnant ?

[bathtublove]

Another celeb surrogacy I'm presuming !

so what about these defenceless immigrant children being taken from hotels in the uk to god knows where then? Or every child who is abused and failed by their family or social services? Or who goes to school hungry and cold?

because it doesn’t directly impact on you you don’t care?

where do you draw the line or is the not giving a shit because it doesn’t affect me one long grim continuum ?

We all know pregnancy carries a risk. Lots of things carry a risk. How many of those were due to surrogacy?

When you cross the road you assess the risk of doing it, when you have to have surgery you also assess the risk with your doctor and so on and on

If after assessing the risk you still decide to do it thats your choice.

The surrogate she used clearly isn't being exploited or forced to do it. She consented to it knowing all the risks involved. So who is anyone to tell someone they can't do it.

Who is anyone to tell anyone hey pregnancy is so risky look 50000 in the US died so better not give birth... People still go on and do it. I mean how utterly disgusting a person decides to risk having a baby I mean think of the baby if the mother dies giving birth .... all that trauma it will go through. Noone should give birth.

I mean that is what your basically getting to .. which is utterly ridiculous

That's a very long winded way of repeating that you don't give two fucks about poor women having their health and lives put at risk in order to provide babies for sale.

And what if a poor person decides to risk having a child themselves??? Is that okay then? Don't u give two fucks about them then? Or is just because they are carrying their own child so its okay then.

But we aren't talking about someone having their own child. We are talking about rich people buying babies and paying poor women to take all the risks, up to and including permanent injury and death, for them.

That's literally the point of the debate. If you don't understand that, you shouldn't be talking about it.

And you don't give two fucks.

It's one thing having a child yourself, it's an entirely different thing to pay someone to have one for you.

Having a drink or taking drugs yourself carries some risk, but paying someone to have a drink or take drugs changes the dynamics entirely.

Are you willfully not seeing the power shift and imbalance? And the room for abuse?

If a woman signs up to a surrogacy agency on her own accord then there is no power imbalance she has signed up without being asked by someone. If Paris or someone else then goes to an agency to find a surrogate
..there is no shift of balance of power.

Besides its legal in the uk..you ok with that too ...where are your other threads about surrogacy in the uk, are you out there protesting and trying to get it chnaged if it disgusts u so much. What are u doing about it then

If Paris or someone else then goes to an agency to find a surrogate..there is no shift of balance of power.

That's like saying that if a man goes to a brothel to find a sex worker, there can be no imbalance of power.

You're not even trying, are you?

I always wondered about the private conversations now lost to history when people debated ethically wrought issues and created justifications for their actions. Like your her nice southern cousin who owns slaves. Or your the nice German neighbors who joined the Nazi party. Or your nice friend who went to Africa during colonialism and came home with a young girl who is now their "ward/servant." At one point, all theses things were considered morally acceptable by some people.

The one thing they all have in common is dehumanisation where it suits them.

And I've heard too many pro-surrogacy advocates call the surrogate mother a "gestational carrier", "gestator" or "incubator" for them to go back on it now.

Dehumanization is completely right. You nailed it, @ReneBumsWombats

If you think about it for more than two minutes the only conclusion is that it’s utterly unjustifiable.